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18,523 hits Rate me! Share Favorite | Flag 6 mos ago by Inquizitor2

As you grew older, have you become more liberal or conservative?


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17 days ago - Saturday 4/24/21 - 5:40:19 PM EST (GMT-5)
On Saturday 4/24/21 - 7:37:46 AM Spoonerism wrote:
Yeah like one through empty words, and don't forget thoughts and prayers.
On Saturday 4/24/21 - 2:26:01 PM CowDung wrote:
Like looking to address the actual issues rather than actions that achieve little except political gain for the Lefties.


Like what?
16 days ago - Saturday 4/24/21 - 7:01:30 PM EST (GMT-5)
Minimum wage increases.

They don't bring any long term gain in buying power, result in job losses, reduced work hours, higher prices, etc. Rather than paying higher wages, many businesses turn to automation to do the jobs.

I think it's better to help the worker and increase their skill level so they can move into better paying jobs rather than to just push wages beyond the value of the work.

16 days ago - Sunday 4/25/21 - 11:10:16 AM EST (GMT-5)
16 days ago - Sunday 4/25/21 - 11:12:35 AM EST (GMT-5)
Try again. You’re also discounting the work that people do. Someone who stands in their feet 8-10 hours a day, ringing up groceries, or working in food services, dies deserve to be paid better than the sad amount they get paid. Even if they do that their whole life. Don’t you, as a Christian, think that people who are working should get paid enough to live above the poverty line?
16 days ago - Sunday 4/25/21 - 12:04:52 PM EST (GMT-5)
I think people should be paid according to the value of their work. There is a difference between having a job and having a career. Bringing people out of poverty is not nearly as simple as raising minimum wage, it's about raising skill levels so that people are able to move into better paying jobs.

People ringing up groceries 8-10 hours a day are being replaced with self checkout lanes in more and more stores. I don't see increasing labor costs as making that any better. The value of the work is capped by the cost of switching over to self checkout lanes.

16 days ago - Sunday 4/25/21 - 12:17:59 PM EST (GMT-5)
Raising skill levels is not possible for everyone. Additionally, any person who has managed other people will tell you that the time and skill it takes to raise and nurture the skill level of people who report to you is very challenging. Are you suggesting we vesting in people managers in these stores? Or maybe you’re advocating for free college education? Equity across the public school systems so that money from affluent areas is spread out so kids in poverty-ridden areas can get the same education? Investing in mental health and community resources to increase support systems? Interesting. Maybe we should tax people who make a lot of money to help fund these things.
16 days ago - Sunday 4/25/21 - 1:11:42 PM EST (GMT-5)
I don't think any solution is going to address everyone, but I see raising skill levels as being a better overall solution for the long term than raising the minimum wage. Put people in positions of having a career to support themselves rather than just having a job.

I don't necessarily believe in providing 'free' college education, nor do I think that college education is the correct path for everyone. I think that subsidizing education through low/no interest loans or income based pell grants are reasonable steps to take.

Dumping more money into schools in poverty ridden areas hasn't been working. I think that providing those students a way to attend other schools is a much better way to address the issue. For example, the highly ranked suburban public school that my kids attend accepts a number of kids from the city to help equalize education opportunities.

16 days ago - Sunday 4/25/21 - 1:12:39 PM EST (GMT-5)
...and while we seem to disagree on the best way to do it, I think my earlier point stands.

On Friday 4/23/21 - 9:32:56 PM CowDung wrote:
Perhaps both sides actually care for and about people, but there's just a difference in how they go about it.

15 days ago - Sunday 4/25/21 - 7:55:04 PM EST (GMT-5)
On Sunday 4/25/21 - 12:04:52 PM CowDung wrote:
I think people should be paid according to the value of their work. There is a difference between having a job and having a career. Bringing people out of poverty is not nearly as simple as raising minimum wage, it's about raising skill levels so that people are able to move into better paying jobs.


when the wife was doing uber during COVID, i saw an option on the app to fund education for drivers. many of the uber drivers i've interacted with were good people with a good head on their shoulders, but uber driving isn't going to pay the bills, and a good education brings value to the table.
15 days ago - Sunday 4/25/21 - 8:35:17 PM EST (GMT-5)
You say the school accepts “a number” of students. Hardly progress for those not accepted. You can’t educate the thousands upon thousands of kids in poorer school by busing them to other schools. I don’t know where you’re getting this idea that putting money into poorer schools isn’t helping. It isn’t helping because it’s not being done. Teacher pay isn’t the same across the board and higher paid teaching jobs are going to draw more involved and qualified teachers. Books and computers in poorer schools will improve access. That’s not rocket science. Better education leads to the higher skill levels you’re claiming are the long term solution, but Republicans don’t want to put any money into that. Instead they worry about his this will impact the rich. You haven’t addressed anything I said about what it takes to help ppl grow their skill set, nor that not everyone has the skills.
15 days ago - Sunday 4/25/21 - 8:36:00 PM EST (GMT-5)
And it’s pretty easy to talk about long term solutions when you have good on the table. Ever try to educate s hungry kid? It doesn’t work.
15 days ago - Sunday 4/25/21 - 8:38:58 PM EST (GMT-5)
Minimum wage is NOT a living wage. This is a problem. If, however, you think you could live on that much money, I’ll shut up.

...meh, I think we both know I won’t


Finally, I don’t think there are bad and evil ppl behind all of this. I think you think you’re doing right by ppl. That this would help. We all do. Doesn’t mean we’re all right. But we have the luxury of debating this because we could both afford to have dinner tonight.
15 days ago - Sunday 4/25/21 - 10:13:45 PM EST (GMT-5)
On Sunday 4/25/21 - 8:35:17 PM camelboy wrote:
Better education leads to the higher skill levels you’re claiming are the long term solution, but Republicans don’t want to put any money into that. Instead they worry about his this will impact the rich. You haven’t addressed anything I said about what it takes to help ppl grow their skill set, nor that not everyone has the skills.


Republicans favor the school choice solution I mentioned. If you want equal educational opportunities, allow kids to attend the same public schools as the suburban kids, or private schools like the wealthier kids.

Access to education does help people acquire the skills they need to earn living wages and not be working minimum wage jobs to support themselves or their families.

15 days ago - Sunday 4/25/21 - 10:13:55 PM EST (GMT-5)
...and i don't understand where you get the idea that public school spending in poor areas hasn't been happening.

https://www.manhattan-institute.org...
15 days ago - Sunday 4/25/21 - 10:19:46 PM EST (GMT-5)
On Sunday 4/25/21 - 8:38:58 PM camelboy wrote:
Finally, I don’t think there are bad and evil ppl behind all of this. I think you think you’re doing right by ppl. That this would help. We all do. Doesn’t mean we’re all right. But we have the luxury of debating this because we could both afford to have dinner tonight.


That was the point that started all of this discussion. I think there are people on both sides that truly want to improve the lives of those who are struggling, and just have different ideas about the best way to go about it.
15 days ago - Monday 4/26/21 - 10:39:35 AM EST (GMT-5)
On Sunday 4/25/21 - 10:13:55 PM CowDung wrote:
...and i don't understand where you get the idea that public school spending in poor areas hasn't been happening. [link]

Not buying it. There’s clear disparity in education based on location. Can’t tell me differently from what I’ve seen with my own eyes and with the young people in DC who are involved with my agency and my work as a social worker.
Additionally, I’m not fool enough to think that access ends at the schools. I addressed additional access to resources that could come from government programs, funded by the taxes you don’t want rich people to have to pay, or by increasing the minimum wage so that people can gain access to resources, even if it’s just an increased ability to afford to travel to another part of town to get y to them. But maybe my thoughts, as an American citizen,
15 days ago - Monday 4/26/21 - 10:40:46 AM EST (GMT-5)
Living in the nation’s capital don’t count, since the Republicans think I don’t deserve representation in Congress, even though I’m one of more than 700,000 US citizens. More than the number living in Wyoming
15 days ago - Monday 4/26/21 - 11:14:12 AM EST (GMT-5)
School choice programs don't really require additional funding or special programs- - if anything, it's just a shifting of dollars to follow the students. Having kids choice out of failing districts also avoids the 'separate but equal' type of situation because students will be attending the same schools as the suburban kids. Far more efficient than dumping more money into school systems that have not been working.

All of the historical minimum wage increases have only brought very short term gains in buying power. The economy quickly readjusts as inflation eats up all the gains, and the minimum wage workers find themselves back in the same place- - struggling to make ends meet, while the Democrats pat themselves on the back.

15 days ago - Monday 4/26/21 - 11:39:35 AM EST (GMT-5)
So you’re in favor of eliminating the public school system?

And you think minimum wage should just stay where it is? Maybe it should keep up with inflation the way it was intended to. But again, if you think you could live on that, ok then.
15 days ago - Monday 4/26/21 - 11:42:53 AM EST (GMT-5)
...and it's not so much about not wanting to tax the rich. I think that income taxes are far more fair than wealth taxes, particularly when targeting specifically the 'rich'.

I do tend to have a general distrust of the government's ability to do things in a cost effective manner. It seems like throwing money at problems and hoping they go away is the typical governmental action.


15 days ago - Monday 4/26/21 - 11:49:26 AM EST (GMT-5)
On Monday 4/26/21 - 11:39:35 AM camelboy wrote:
So you’re in favor of eliminating the public school system? And you think minimum wage should just stay where it is?


No, many public schools are doing fine. No reason to get rid of them. I thought I was clear when I gave the example of the city public school kids being able to attend the suburban public schools.

I think that minimum wage should be for entry level, part time work. Anyone looking to support themselves should be working in jobs that can provide opportunities for advancement, and better wages.

If it takes government intervention to subsidize training programs as an unemployment benefit or something like that, I could support that. Keeping people trapped in minimum wage jobs (with periodic raises to the minimum wage level) does nothing to really improve their situation.
15 days ago - Monday 4/26/21 - 2:16:12 PM EST (GMT-5)
I would have a lot more respect for labor Unions if they used their resources to supply (or subsidize) skills training/continuing education as one of their member benefits rather than just push for higher and higher wages for people to do the same level of work.

9 days ago - Sunday 5/2/21 - 8:15:47 AM EST (GMT-5)
The problem is that industries are not social progress institutions. Industries exist to provide a product to market, whatever that might be.

Minimum wage ensures a the base level under which no one business can undercut it's competitors, thereby creating a cost war in which the least able workers are the victims. You know this but you like to ignore it because it doesn't suit your argument.

Your Shangri LA-La Land where the onus would be on Unions investing in workers "marketable skills" a favourite drum you like to bang, again blithely passes the social responsibility for adult education onto "someone else that is nothing to do with ME"

A typical conservative attitude. Why should some workers be forced to pay union fees to subsidise the education of other Union members? You would be standing on 3 soapboxes if you were required to pay into any such scheme.
9 days ago - Sunday 5/2/21 - 8:17:19 AM EST (GMT-5)
"I do tend to have a general distrust of the government's ability to do things in a cost effective manner"

Yet you would trust Union organisations to make a greater difference?

Climb down off your soapboxes.
9 days ago - Sunday 5/2/21 - 9:38:42 AM EST (GMT-5)
I'm not suggesting that Unions would be the only way to get assistance in acquiring skills.

On Sunday 4/25/21 - 1:11:42 PM CowDung wrote:
I don't necessarily believe in providing 'free' college education, nor do I think that college education is the correct path for everyone. I think that subsidizing education through low/no interest loans or income based pell grants are reasonable steps to take.


Rather than banging the drum for higher wages (which means more income in Union dues), the Unions should be working to increase the value of the work that can be done by their members. The Trades Unions at least have apprenticeship programs to help workers acquire skills and increase the value of their work.

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