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3,229 hits Rate me! Share Favorite | Flag 18 years ago by WisenHiemer

If the Bible is full of contradictions, do you have a theory why they didn`t edit them out when they were changing it?
This of course is assuming it has contradictions and has been changed over time.


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18 yrs ago, 9 mos ago - Wednesday 10/29/03 - 9:31:41 AM EST (GMT-5)
I think a lot of the discussion here is stemming from the fact that we all have different ideas of exactly what certain words mean, 'proof' in particular. The concept to which I refer when I say 'proof' is not subjective. There aren't sufficient premises to 'prove' that God exists, or that he doesn't; or if there are, I haven't seen them.

So a child being born isn't proof of God's existence, by my definition. Just because one person can't imagine that this could happen without God, doesn't make it so, and doesn't prove anything; it might provide a ground for that person's faith, but I consider genuine 'proof' of a condition to be something that removes all possibility of that condition not being true. Something which merely motivates someone to believe that it is true is evidence, or an argument.

18 yrs ago, 9 mos ago - Wednesday 10/29/03 - 9:44:06 AM EST (GMT-5)
The Bibles contradicitions cannot be changed because no one is in the posistion to say which side of the contradiction should be left out and which should be kept.
18 yrs ago, 9 mos ago - Wednesday 10/29/03 - 9:45:50 AM EST (GMT-5)
There ARE contridictions, there is no denying it.
18 yrs ago, 9 mos ago - Wednesday 10/29/03 - 9:45:52 AM EST (GMT-5)
Interesting point, FD.
18 yrs ago, 9 mos ago - Wednesday 10/29/03 - 9:46:23 AM EST (GMT-5)
Floor Demon, I'm left wondering as to your overall view of the Bible. You think it has contradictions, but you hold it in high enough esteem that you don't think people should fiddle with it? Do you see the Bible as a holy book, God's word, a source of inspirational teaching, what?
18 yrs ago, 9 mos ago - Wednesday 10/29/03 - 9:47:34 AM EST (GMT-5)
molls, I'm afraid there is plenty of denying it; just looking at the last five pages of discussion here shows that. What's interesting and worth discussing is whether the denials stand up to inspection, whether there's any logical basis for them.
18 yrs ago, 9 mos ago - Wednesday 10/29/03 - 9:49:00 AM EST (GMT-5)
(actually, most of it has been on the topic of epistemology )
18 yrs ago, 9 mos ago - Wednesday 10/29/03 - 9:49:22 AM EST (GMT-5)
Myself not being a Christian, I only take what I believe other people hold to be its meaning.

If it is meant to be a guide to Christians and how they should live, what man alive is able to say which bit of it is wrong and which bit Christians should live by?

If it is Gods word, who has the authority second guess God?

18 yrs ago, 9 mos ago - Wednesday 10/29/03 - 9:53:18 AM EST (GMT-5)
But if you're not a Christian, presumably you don't believe that it is God's word. Even a lot of Christian don't believe it to be the absolutely inerrant word of their Lord, having been copied and translated numerous times by human scribes.
18 yrs ago, 9 mos ago - Wednesday 10/29/03 - 9:57:21 AM EST (GMT-5)
I dont believe that it is, but I accept that it might be.

I believe it is meant as a guide. A collection of fables to give people and idea of how to live their lives. I doubt that most of it (especially the old testamant) are real events.

If the origional meaning was indeed lost in the translation, no one can say what the origional meaning actually was, so you cant edit out part of it.

18 yrs ago, 9 mos ago - Wednesday 10/29/03 - 9:58:25 AM EST (GMT-5)
In my ever (not) humble opinion, I do not believe the Bible contradicts itself. That is an assumption made quite frequently and ironically enough in conversations like these, rarely proved.

omega, I see where you are coming from with God being outside logic. Because logic is something that can be understood by man in its entirety, God can not be within it. Nothing can bound God, because from a Biblical perspective, He made ALL. The laws that govern the universe, time itself, anything and everything is unable to contain/isolate/control/govern God.

However, this does not mean He is unable to place restrictions on Himself. In fact, this is what He did when He came to earth as a man.

By trying to say that because God is not within any limits, He can not limit Himself is incorrect, and in fact limits who God is, violating the validity of the basis for such an argument.

18 yrs ago, 9 mos ago - Wednesday 10/29/03 - 9:58:44 AM EST (GMT-5)
Whoa. This one is moving right along.
18 yrs ago, 9 mos ago - Wednesday 10/29/03 - 10:00:38 AM EST (GMT-5)
Why not? Fallible people chose exactly which books should be included in the Bible in the first place, and the exact wording chosen to translate it. Maybe it shouldn't be changed, but as so many Christians don't believe in such stories as the Creation, the Flood and so on, I don't see any reason why it shouldn't at least be generally accepted that certain parts in the Bible are anachronistic and destructive in this modern world.
18 yrs ago, 9 mos ago - Wednesday 10/29/03 - 10:01:25 AM EST (GMT-5)
^ In response to Floor Demon, mc80a got there before me.
18 yrs ago, 9 mos ago - Wednesday 10/29/03 - 10:04:55 AM EST (GMT-5)
But if Christianity is to be believed, the messages contained origionally in the bible were once from God, however they are said to be communicated. If this message is then distorted due to a human error, you could end up with two different messages. One of them will be right, the other will be wrong, but who is in a position to say what Gods origional message actually was.

18 yrs ago, 9 mos ago - Wednesday 10/29/03 - 10:11:35 AM EST (GMT-5)
OK - so you're fairly sure some messages are distorted, but think it should be left alone for Christians to make up their own minds about what's truly God's word?

That's fair enough; my only problem with that is that it's not only the messages which seem distorted and ambiguous which are called into question. If some parts are clearly unreliable due to communication problems, then might not other parts, which seem straightforward enough, be affected also? How do we know what parts to trust at all?

18 yrs ago, 9 mos ago - Wednesday 10/29/03 - 10:16:37 AM EST (GMT-5)
Thats the problem obviously, if you take part out, theres a chance that you have ignored what Gods message actually was. If you leave everything in, you are guarunteed to have the wrong message in there somewhere. Its a lose-lose situation. But surly its better to give someone a right and a wrong answer and let them sort it out than (possibly) just giving them the wrong one.
18 yrs ago, 9 mos ago - Wednesday 10/29/03 - 10:17:57 AM EST (GMT-5)
How about checking the external validity of it all?
18 yrs ago, 9 mos ago - Wednesday 10/29/03 - 10:21:19 AM EST (GMT-5)
kyry: that's a whole other kettle of fish, but one which doesn't seem to affect the faith of most Christians.

And Floor Demon: yes, I'm a big fan of giving people options of belief/morals/whatever and allowing them to make as objective a decision as possible. But that's not really what the Bible does; Christianity insists on belief in the Bible as God's word, to my understanding.

18 yrs ago, 9 mos ago - Wednesday 10/29/03 - 10:24:28 AM EST (GMT-5)
I do believe that the Bible is supposed to be Gods word, but as they are unsure as to what it is, they cant take anything out. Thats my point.
18 yrs ago, 9 mos ago - Wednesday 10/29/03 - 10:36:14 AM EST (GMT-5)
what would the bible leave us if there were no contradictions? there would be no room for questioning and room for us to interpret things for ourselves...
18 yrs ago, 9 mos ago - Wednesday 10/29/03 - 12:20:06 PM EST (GMT-5)
Kyry, I'm sorry about this reply comes so late after your question.

A reference system associated with an observation signifies a reading (measurement), that you hold towards the observers condition(s) of making the measurement itself, meaning that what state the observer was in when making the observation. For example if I say that a car moves at the velocity 20m/s, then the surface of the Earth is the reference-system, again meaning that for the observer that the surface of the Earth has the velocity 0m/s; Earth for the observer is a fixed point. We all know it isn't true.

If I would make the same observation of the movement of the same car in the same situation, -but- this time the reference system is the Sun as a fixed point, the the velocity of the car is 20m/s + "angular velocity of the Earth*" + "rotational velocity of the Earth**" = 20 m/s + 3.0x104m/s + 328m/s (at 45 degrees from equator)

18 yrs ago, 9 mos ago - Wednesday 10/29/03 - 12:20:16 PM EST (GMT-5)
*Angular velocity: http://www.physlink.com/Education/AskExp...
**Rotational velocity: http://pws.gamewood.net/~beaton/spinjava...

I hope this is a suffiecent answer.

18 yrs ago, 9 mos ago - Wednesday 10/29/03 - 12:46:42 PM EST (GMT-5)
No problemo, and thanks.

But my question was more at why this is a problem for science, as you implied by saying that scientists have become "painfully aware" (I think those were your words).

18 yrs ago, 9 mos ago - Wednesday 10/29/03 - 2:07:34 PM EST (GMT-5)
Yes I know, that's related to a renowned experiment, the Michelson-Morley experiment in 1879.

http://galileoandeinstein.physics.virgin...


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