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34,542 hits 2.5 (4 votes) Share Favorite | Flag 8 years ago by 314159

Do you think aliens exist?


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8 yrs ago - Tuesday 9/23/14 - 2:11:04 PM EST (GMT-5)
here, i'll actually pull the direct quote from that article just so you have it handy

"Overall, the data produced by the researchers supports the idea that the evolution of complex life on other worlds is relatively rare across our galaxy, but still extremely large in terms of absolute numbers. So, even though they may very well be countless other advanced forms of life in the Milky Way, we are so far from one another that we are unlikely to make the trip there in the foreseeable future."
8 yrs ago - Tuesday 9/23/14 - 2:16:49 PM EST (GMT-5)
On Tuesday 9/23/14 - 2:09:33 PM Disappears wrote:
[link] another book trying to reconcile god and religion

this part should read god and religion with science
or science with god and religion
whichever way is more correct
8 yrs ago - Tuesday 9/23/14 - 2:33:13 PM EST (GMT-5)
Dis, the claim that there are 100,000,000 planets that can support life is way out of line with what any astronomers are claiming. There are projected to be something like that number of planets in the Goldilocks zone (orbit of the appropriate distance from the star) of the appropriate size. There are MANY other factors: the right chemistry, the right geology, the right physical characteristics, and so on that all of these things must be taken into account. And when they are, the number of planets that could possibly sustain life plummets dramatically. Not just for intelligent life, for any life.

Two of the factors are: presence of hard radiation and lack of protective outer planets (which I mentioned) those alone knock the number down into the range you seem to be describing.

8 yrs ago - Tuesday 9/23/14 - 7:01:08 PM EST (GMT-5)
yeah, i'm sure they knock the numbers down

when i first read your post, i thought you were saying it was impossible for complex life to exist
but that may not have actually been the case?
tbh, your post was hard to understand and i'm still not entirely sure about your word choices
8 yrs ago - Tuesday 9/23/14 - 7:01:26 PM EST (GMT-5)
this post, specifically
On Tuesday 9/23/14 - 11:54:44 AM dacash wrote:
You can be all the Earth like you want, even with the necessary moon(s) and magnetic fields, it could be identical to Earth in every way. But if it anywhere in the universe other than (like us) sitting outside a spiral arm, its getting bombarded with so much heavy radiation, no complex life is going to develop. Period. And assuming its in a solar system that gave it protective outer planets (which would keep random debris from crashing the party and killing everything on the planet on a regular basis). I mean, the general definition of Earth like tossed about is liquid water bearing, or worse, merely in the Goldilocks zone around a sun. In truth, there may not be *any* other planets that could sustain life. There sure aren't billions.
8 yrs ago - Tuesday 9/23/14 - 11:12:12 PM EST (GMT-5)
I think it is basically impossible. I mean, there's the possibility of pretty much anything, but realistically... no.

I'm saying the things required for complex life are far more exacting than the few items used in GSs article to determine a BCI score. "earth like" to them doesn't' take in many factors (such as the two above). And there are a half dozen more I could think of without even trying hard.

So when your 100 million planets become a lot more like a few hundred planets due to these factors, yes it is possible that one or more of them could support complex life. But the odds become a lot harder to swallow that they actually do. If you believe in evo, then now your asking for some really long odds to come in twice in a few hundred instances. Possible, but truly unlikely.
8 yrs ago - Tuesday 9/23/14 - 11:14:32 PM EST (GMT-5)
And although there are possibly 100s. There may not be any such planets. To extrapolate there are a 100 billion when we've never even found one is a wild flight of fantasy. To say there may not be any when we've never found one is a lot more sensible.
8 yrs ago - Wednesday 9/24/14 - 12:09:29 AM EST (GMT-5)
there are possibly 100s in the milky way alone

then take into account that there are billions of galaxies in the universe
best estimates put the number at least at 100 billion galaxies

to truly believe that there isn't one other planet out there that holds at least complex life is pretty crazy
8 yrs ago - Wednesday 9/24/14 - 12:16:37 AM EST (GMT-5)
"Watson, you idiot, someone's stolen our tent!"
8 yrs ago - Wednesday 9/24/14 - 1:08:30 AM EST (GMT-5)
It supports the ridiculous "we are God's special children" argument to deny the likelihood of other intelligent life.

The truth of course is that we are here discussing this by chance. We are highly improbable. Of course highly improbable is not the same as impossible. But odds so large are easy to get confused about. You wouldn't bet your life-savings on a horse at several billion to one!
8 yrs ago - Wednesday 9/24/14 - 6:42:37 AM EST (GMT-5)
On Tuesday 9/23/14 - 12:55:06 PM dacash wrote:
Some suggested reading for the pop scientists: "Nature's Density" Denton, Micheal "The Privileged Planet" Gonzales, Guillermo and Jay Wesley Richards "God and the Astronomers" Jastrow, Robert "Six Modern Myths" Sampson, Philip "Rare Earth" Ward, Peter and Donald Brownlee


And now you have zero credibility.

Four books about God and one with actual science in it?

Nice try. Now, go back to pretending you're a scientist whilst we laugh at you.
8 yrs ago - Wednesday 9/24/14 - 12:10:51 PM EST (GMT-5)
On Wednesday 9/24/14 - 12:09:29 AM Disappears wrote:
there are possibly 100s in the milky way alone

No there are not. There is zero proof of that. To extrapolate from an extrapolation of a guess isn't science, its fantasy.

On Wednesday 9/24/14 - 1:08:30 AM DaveW wrote:
It supports the ridiculous "we are God's special children" argument to deny the likelihood of other intelligent life.

No it does not. Moreover, one of the most famous Christian writers of our time wrote books about alien intelligences and how their experience with God might be different than ours. You're just projecting stupidity all over here.

8 yrs ago - Wednesday 9/24/14 - 12:14:42 PM EST (GMT-5)
GS, I don't have to pretend. Now why don't you go pretend your opinion on anything counts, or for that matter that your vote counts. You see, just like in your country's recent issue, you think you are the voice of reason AND the majority. Wrong on both counts again.

Even if every single person on YT agreed with you, you think that really matters? I have classes bigger than the active population of this site.
8 yrs ago - Wednesday 9/24/14 - 12:37:01 PM EST (GMT-5)
you are being ridiculous

there are estimates
that scientists come up with
based on known data
to dismiss them because there is no hard evidence or count that this number of planets exist is silly

and then there's this
so there is at least one
8 yrs ago - Wednesday 9/24/14 - 12:40:04 PM EST (GMT-5)
On Wednesday 9/24/14 - 12:14:42 PM dacash wrote:
GS, I don't have to pretend.


So why use pretend science books as sources?

Oh wait, I know why. Because you're a moron.
8 yrs ago - Wednesday 9/24/14 - 12:53:35 PM EST (GMT-5)
Hey mom there's something in the backroom
8 yrs ago - Wednesday 9/24/14 - 1:03:25 PM EST (GMT-5)
"the positioning of the alien world coupled with its size suggests that Kepler-186f could have water on its surface" Not liquid water, water.

"theoretically within the habitable zone for a red dwarf."

Woot. It *might* have 2 of about 20 conditions needed for the support of complex life. The belief that it does or even could support complex life is fantasy, sheer fantasy, not science.

8 yrs ago - Wednesday 9/24/14 - 4:12:55 PM EST (GMT-5)
On Wednesday 9/24/14 - 1:08:30 AM DaveW wrote:
It supports the ridiculous "we are God's special children" argument to deny the likelihood of other intelligent life.
On Wednesday 9/24/14 - 12:10:51 PM dacash wrote:
No it does not. Moreover, one of the most famous Christian writers of our time wrote books about alien intelligences and how their experience with God might be different than ours. You're just projecting stupidity all over here.

You claim that a supernatural being with the power to do anything turned his favourite child into a zombie in order to save his millions of other children from sins he allowed them to commit.

And *I* project stupid? Really!
8 yrs ago - Wednesday 9/24/14 - 4:15:51 PM EST (GMT-5)
On Wednesday 9/24/14 - 4:12:55 PM DaveW wrote:
You claim that a supernatural being with the power to do anything turned his favourite child into a zombie in order to save his millions of other children from sins he allowed them to commit.

No. I don't think that.
8 yrs ago - Wednesday 9/24/14 - 4:58:59 PM EST (GMT-5)
On Wednesday 9/24/14 - 4:12:55 PM DaveW wrote:
You claim that a supernatural being with the power to do anything turned his favourite child into a zombie in order to save his millions of other children from sins he allowed them to commit.
On Wednesday 9/24/14 - 4:15:51 PM dacash wrote:
No. I don't think that.

So if you edit my post to remove the flippancy, which bits do not concur with your belief?

The all powerful god?
The sacrifice of Jesus to save mankind?
The rising from the dead?
The free will?

Which bits are wrong?
8 yrs ago - Wednesday 9/24/14 - 5:07:19 PM EST (GMT-5)
On Wednesday 9/24/14 - 4:58:59 PM DaveW wrote:
The all powerful god? The sacrifice of Jesus to save mankind? The rising from the dead? The free will?

This I agree with.

But you know, when you subtract the flippancy 2 things happen. One, I consider giving you a serious answer and the beliefs are no longer absurd science fiction.
8 yrs ago - Wednesday 9/24/14 - 5:13:02 PM EST (GMT-5)
Here are my 2 points in return:

1. I don't care whether you give me a serious answer or not.
2. Supernatural beings & rising from the dead ARE fiction. Human sacrifice is distasteful fiction. Free will is a long and tedious debate the answer to which is "free will has some limits".
8 yrs ago - Wednesday 9/24/14 - 5:14:36 PM EST (GMT-5)
On Wednesday 9/24/14 - 5:13:02 PM DaveW wrote:
Here are my 2 points in return: 1. I don't care whether you give me a serious answer or not. 2. Supernatural beings & rising from the dead ARE fiction. Human sacrifice is distasteful fiction. Free will is a long and tedious debate the answer to which is "free will has some limits".

Well then thank God you didn't give me a serious response...
8 yrs ago - Wednesday 9/24/14 - 5:15:52 PM EST (GMT-5)
i think they might exist
and maybe even go as far as they might well exist

but i tend to actively believe in things that i know exist because of reasons showing their existence, rather than more abstract 'well if this exists, then it's possible that might also happen' reasoning

so i'm going with 'as far as i know (which isn't very much really) they probably might even exist, but i'm not going to say that i 'believe' in them until it turns out there's some sort of evidence of alien life in which case i'll be all 'neat!'

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