The alleged gunman, 20, opened fire with an AR-15-style rifle around 6 p.m. Sunday at the Greenwood Park Mall, located just south of Indianapolis, firing 24 rounds within two minutes... Who's Online | Find Members | Private Messages
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Hero civilian shoots, kills Indiana mall gunman

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2 months ago - Friday 7/22/22 - 11:11:28 PM EST (GMT-5)
The alleged gunman, 20, opened fire with an AR-15-style rifle around 6 p.m. Sunday at the Greenwood Park Mall, located just south of Indianapolis, firing 24 rounds within two minutes before a Good Samaritan stepped in and killed the shooter, the city’s police chief, James Ison, said at a news conference.

https://www.foxnews.com/us/indiana-greenwood-park-mall-shooting-victims-bystander-killed-gunman-identified
2 months ago - Friday 7/22/22 - 11:12:54 PM EST (GMT-5)
At 5:56:48 p.m. on July 17, 2022, the perpetrator began firing into the food court area of the mall. He first shot and killed Indianapolis native Victor Gomez, who was standing near the restroom entrance. He then turned and fired at a nearby table, fatally shooting Pedro and Rosa Pineda, a married couple from Indianapolis. Sapirman then continued to fire at mall patrons, injuring a 22-year-old woman and a 12-year-old girl.

2 months ago - Friday 7/22/22 - 11:13:04 PM EST (GMT-5)
Fifteen seconds after the shooting began, Elisjsha Dicken, a legally-armed 22-year-old man from Seymour, engaged the shooter in a gunfight. From a distance of forty yards, Dicken fired ten rounds from a Glock handgun, hitting the shooter eight times. The shooter fired once, and attempted to retreat into the restroom, but instead fell to the ground and died soon afterwards.

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Greenwood_Park_Mall_shooting
2 months ago - Friday 7/22/22 - 11:13:38 PM EST (GMT-5)
Good guy with a gun stops bad guy with a gun.
2 months ago - Saturday 7/23/22 - 12:08:07 AM EST (GMT-5)
Ur so dumb
2 months ago - Saturday 7/23/22 - 1:02:01 AM EST (GMT-5)
Bad guy with a gun kills 3 people and wounds 2 others first. This is not nullified by his own death, except in Noldor's Wild West fantasy game show.
2 months ago - Monday 7/25/22 - 11:48:09 AM EST (GMT-5)
On Saturday 7/23/22 - 1:02:01 AM Boredofu wrote:
Bad guy with a gun kills 3 people and wounds 2 others first. This is not nullified by his own death, except in Noldor's Wild West fantasy game show.


criminals tend to operate under the assumption that people won't fight back. people are already questioning how effective police are after uvalde, so now's a great time for everyday, law-abiding people to learn how to use guns.
2 months ago - Monday 7/25/22 - 11:52:30 AM EST (GMT-5)
Just imagine a world where good guys don’t need guns because bad guys don’t have guns.

That world exists.

But not in the USA, because those quarterwits think more of their constitutional right to blander around with guns than they do other human beings.
2 months ago - Monday 7/25/22 - 11:53:14 AM EST (GMT-5)
Wander. Obvs. Not blander.

WTF even is blander?
2 months ago - Tuesday 7/26/22 - 2:34:45 AM EST (GMT-5)
Blander than a Gregg's Chicken pasty.
2 months ago - Tuesday 7/26/22 - 9:34:58 AM EST (GMT-5)
On Saturday 7/23/22 - 1:02:01 AM Boredofu wrote:
Bad guy with a gun kills 3 people and wounds 2 others first. This is not nullified by his own death, except in Noldor's Wild West fantasy game show.
On Monday 7/25/22 - 11:48:09 AM Inquizitor2 wrote:
criminals tend to operate under the assumption that people won't fight back. people are already questioning how effective police are after uvalde, so now's a great time for everyday, law-abiding people to learn how to use guns.


Sure, but according to FBI data, people who attack shooters unarmed are more successful than ones who go in against them armed. It's like a 60% success rate for unarmed attackers. With fire arms it's drastically lower, both in rate of intervention and rate of success.
2 months ago - Tuesday 7/26/22 - 9:53:53 AM EST (GMT-5)
Interesting. You have stats on that?

Does that include police interventions, or just civilians?
2 months ago - Tuesday 7/26/22 - 10:10:13 AM EST (GMT-5)
On Tuesday 7/26/22 - 9:53:53 AM CowDung wrote:
Interesting. You have stats on that? Does that include police interventions, or just civilians?


Just civilians, and no I don't have them handy. That study was done in like 2012-2014 if that helps you find it. It was a pretty extensive stat dump from the FBI on mass/spree shootings. Not a lot of inference or extrapolation other than the fact that intervention, when it occurs, works better than it doesn't, and that people are more likely to intervene unarmed than armed. I've, of course, got theories, but the raw data is the raw data.
2 months ago - Tuesday 7/26/22 - 2:25:19 PM EST (GMT-5)
Thanks

It does make some sense that intervention works better than no intervention...

I'll poke around a bit and see if I can find it.
2 months ago - Tuesday 7/26/22 - 4:22:02 PM EST (GMT-5)
On Tuesday 7/26/22 - 2:25:19 PM CowDung wrote:
Thanks It does make some sense that intervention works better than no intervention... I'll poke around a bit and see if I can find it.


It does make sense, but I'd caveat that by saying that intervention doesn't always make sense, and that I wouldn't rely on aggregate data like that to make any sort of absolute determination encouraging or discouraging intervention because case by case there's going to be tons of factors that determine if intervention is viable which is based on a variety of variables.
2 months ago - Wednesday 7/27/22 - 4:52:20 AM EST (GMT-5)
I'd imagine that most attackers have 1 game plan in mind and they ave chosen remote attacking with firearms and expect to be confronted by armed police at which point they will die. Most guys who get into street brawls have a similar outlook, hey have one move and they practice it well if they are competent. Most bouncers/security are not rained to cope with any eventuality in a direct assault so they mostly stand off and wait for an opportunity to contain. That's why they mostly use huge bodied dudes.

If a shooter is confronted with anyone outside his game plan, that is going to possibly mess with his head and concentration while he is undergoing psychosis.
2 months ago - Wednesday 7/27/22 - 7:56:36 AM EST (GMT-5)
Minus the psychosis, part, that's largely where I go with it, Bored (I don't think that most of these people are psychotic, one of the the Columbine kids were, but the rest don't fit the bill). I do add in basically that it's harder to hit a moving target, and it's hard to use a gun as a hand to hand weapon if you don't know how, and the shooter has two competing priorities (maintaining control of the weapon and winning the fight) whole the shooter has one (winning the fight). Plus I doubt many, if any, of these shooters have been in a scrap before, so they don't really know how to control their personal space. But they do have a gun they're actively using, so their odds do go from near 0 to 40%.
2 months ago - Wednesday 7/27/22 - 9:34:06 AM EST (GMT-5)
On Tuesday 7/26/22 - 2:25:19 PM CowDung wrote:
Thanks It does make some sense that intervention works better than no intervention... I'll poke around a bit and see if I can find it.
On Tuesday 7/26/22 - 4:22:02 PM Kepi wrote:
It does make sense, but I'd caveat that by saying that intervention doesn't always make sense, and that I wouldn't rely on aggregate data like that to make any sort of absolute determination encouraging or discouraging intervention because case by case there's going to be tons of factors that determine if intervention is viable which is based on a variety of variables.


Right, I agree.
2 months ago - Wednesday 7/27/22 - 4:13:19 PM EST (GMT-5)
Yeah I assume that they might not be overly confident of maintaining physical control of their personal space. So that might be a distraction.
2 months ago - Wednesday 7/27/22 - 9:55:21 PM EST (GMT-5)
On Wednesday 7/27/22 - 4:13:19 PM Boredofu wrote:
Yeah I assume that they might not be overly confident of maintaining physical control of their personal space. So that might be a distraction.


Yup. And barrel control becomes this huge issue when the rifle is 2 to 1/2 feet long and some dude wants to be 6 to 8 inches away from your face.
2 months ago - Thursday 7/28/22 - 6:01:07 AM EST (GMT-5)
Unless someone has a firm grip on a weapon it's remarkably easy to disarm them at close quarters. Push the barrel down and the butt up and turn it 180degrees. Now it's pointing at them too.
2 months ago - Thursday 7/28/22 - 9:40:01 PM EST (GMT-5)
On Thursday 7/28/22 - 6:01:07 AM Boredofu wrote:
Unless someone has a firm grip on a weapon it's remarkably easy to disarm them at close quarters. Push the barrel down and the butt up and turn it 180degrees. Now it's pointing at them too.


Yup and when you see your own impending demise right there, the burn from grabbing a hot barrel is pretty negligible.
2 months ago - Friday 7/29/22 - 1:18:27 AM EST (GMT-5)
You don't gave to grab, just push with an open hand, grabbing is done at the butt end.
2 months ago - Sunday 7/31/22 - 10:11:59 AM EST (GMT-5)
On Friday 7/29/22 - 1:18:27 AM Boredofu wrote:
You don't gave to grab, just push with an open hand, grabbing is done at the butt end.


Intellectually I know that, intellectually I also know that if this were me I'd drat it up without a lot of practice, and I think a fairly sizable number of people (maybe 30% of the population) would too.
2 months ago - Sunday 7/31/22 - 3:40:52 PM EST (GMT-5)
On Friday 7/22/22 - 11:13:38 PM Noldor wrote:
Good guy with a gun stops bad guy with a gun.
This argument only works when it's the norm. You can't say "Look, it happened once! The system works!"

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