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38,099 hits 3.3 (4 votes) Share Favorite | Flag 6 years ago by KRM

Is homophobia/bigotry the root of any and all opposition to gay marriage?


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6 yrs ago, 11 mos ago - Saturday 2/1/14 - 3:24:13 AM EST (GMT-5)
In general, I think so.

Most people who oppose gay marriage won't say this outright, however. They'll argue that they are simply trying to defend "traditional marriage" as a social and/or religious institution. I've definitely heard plenty of people against gay marriage who says they have no problem with gay people but think that marriage is "defined" as a heterosexual union.

But I've also noticed that whenever the discussion runs deeper than their talking points, quieted homophobia begins to emerge and you're ultimately led to the conclusion that people opposed to gay marriage simply do not believe that gay people are deserving of equal rights.

That's bigotry, and there's really no way around it.
6 yrs ago, 11 mos ago - Saturday 2/1/14 - 3:27:17 AM EST (GMT-5)
i guess there's always good old-fashioned confusion
6 yrs ago, 11 mos ago - Saturday 2/1/14 - 3:32:58 AM EST (GMT-5)
I think so. Though I have heard the argument that allowing gay marriage would encourage fraudulent marriages, such as for getting a visa for a friend or something along those lines.
6 yrs ago, 11 mos ago - Saturday 2/1/14 - 7:31:30 AM EST (GMT-5)
Yup.

Frequently, they'll dress it up by quoting orders from an invisible space wizard supposedly written in a book taken from the writings of primitive peoples from the Bronze and early Iron ages, but the bigotry shines through.
6 yrs ago, 11 mos ago - Saturday 2/1/14 - 7:33:06 AM EST (GMT-5)
On Saturday 2/1/14 - 3:32:58 AM Raisinman wrote:
I think so. Though I have heard the argument that allowing gay marriage would encourage fraudulent marriages, such as for getting a visa for a friend or something along those lines.


This happens pretty frequently anyway.
6 yrs ago, 11 mos ago - Saturday 2/1/14 - 10:12:34 AM EST (GMT-5)
As much as it pains me to do so, the phrasing of the question - - "any and all" - - is going to have to force me to go w/, "No."
6 yrs ago, 11 mos ago - Saturday 2/1/14 - 6:10:03 PM EST (GMT-5)
I'm unsurprised by the response on this question.

Only racists voted against Obama, too.
6 yrs ago, 11 mos ago - Saturday 2/1/14 - 7:13:45 PM EST (GMT-5)
On Saturday 2/1/14 - 10:12:34 AM IRLIteach wrote:
As much as it pains me to do so, the phrasing of the question - - "any and all" - - is going to have to force me to go w/, "No."

this is the boat I was on
6 yrs ago, 11 mos ago - Sunday 2/2/14 - 2:13:35 AM EST (GMT-5)
No, I think the bulk of the actual opposition is financial, while the bigots, hate mongers, and such absorb all the flak.
6 yrs ago, 11 mos ago - Sunday 2/2/14 - 6:16:33 AM EST (GMT-5)
individual churches are allowed to not hold ceremonies for same sex couples, right?
6 yrs ago, 11 mos ago - Sunday 2/2/14 - 7:05:44 AM EST (GMT-5)
On Saturday 2/1/14 - 6:10:03 PM dacash wrote:
I'm unsurprised by the response on this question. Only racists voted against Obama, too.


No, that was just why you didn't vote for him.
6 yrs ago, 11 mos ago - Sunday 2/2/14 - 7:18:15 AM EST (GMT-5)
because if you think that the law should force independent churches to perform same sex marriages that's equivalent to saying that muslim women can't wear burqas or that jewish people shouldn't be allowed to circumcise their children.

like, legally.
6 yrs ago, 11 mos ago - Sunday 2/2/14 - 12:01:01 PM EST (GMT-5)
On Sunday 2/2/14 - 6:16:33 AM amaqdrinker wrote:
individual churches are allowed to not hold ceremonies for same sex couples, right?


Correct.
6 yrs ago, 11 mos ago - Sunday 2/2/14 - 12:44:16 PM EST (GMT-5)
On Sunday 2/2/14 - 7:18:15 AM amaqdrinker wrote:
because if you think that the law should force independent churches to perform same sex marriages that's equivalent to saying that muslim women can't wear burqas or that jewish people shouldn't be allowed to circumcise their children. like, legally.


I would have a problem with none of those.
6 yrs ago, 11 mos ago - Sunday 2/2/14 - 1:42:35 PM EST (GMT-5)
On Sunday 2/2/14 - 6:16:33 AM amaqdrinker wrote:
individual churches are allowed to not hold ceremonies for same sex couples, right?

Absolutely. If that were not the case, there would be some groups who are very much in favor of gay people being allowed to marry civilly but who would be defending individual churches' right not to participate. I would hope the ACLU would take up those churches' defense in that case.
But that's not at all the case, so anyone opposing gay marriage on those lines is opposing it more as the result of ignorance than clear homophobia and bigotry.
6 yrs ago, 11 mos ago - Sunday 2/2/14 - 2:49:20 PM EST (GMT-5)
"I would hope the ACLU would take up those churches' defense in that case. "

The day this does happen, and todoubt it won't be in our lifetime is silly, I hope to IRLI will revisit this statement. I wonder if he'll be able to laugh at it as well as I am laughing at it now.
6 yrs ago, 11 mos ago - Sunday 2/2/14 - 3:06:48 PM EST (GMT-5)
You need to stop trying to be so clever w/ your typing. Between typos and a cryptic subordinate clause, I can barely tell what you're even talking about.

It won't happen b/c churches' right to refuse to marry a couple will never be threatened, dacash.
6 yrs ago, 11 mos ago - Sunday 2/2/14 - 10:29:17 PM EST (GMT-5)
in the case of some of my older relatives, it wasn't talked about much (or at all), and they grew up in a strict catholic household.

they're not going around calling people faggots or anything, they just don't agree with it.
6 yrs ago, 11 mos ago - Monday 2/3/14 - 1:48:28 PM EST (GMT-5)
On Sunday 2/2/14 - 3:06:48 PM IRLIteach wrote:
It won't happen b/c churches' right to refuse to marry a couple will never be threatened...

Really?

Seems like a bill is already being debated that would.

And is already being challenged in some places.

And is a done deal in countries further down this path.
6 yrs ago, 11 mos ago - Monday 2/3/14 - 3:11:12 PM EST (GMT-5)
Your "Really?" link is an absolute farce. The site is a very biased conservative page interpreting the "legalese" of a bill in the most inflammatory way possible to scare their base.

2nd link: One gay couple in England.
3rd link: Denmark.

It won't get anywhere in the U.S. I suppose if you want to define any person who challenges churches' religious freedom a "threat," it'll play w/ your type just like the idea that gay marriage threatens traditional marriage.
6 yrs ago, 11 mos ago - Monday 2/3/14 - 3:35:45 PM EST (GMT-5)
No.

I know people who are opposed to gay marriage because they are opposed to ALL marriage, and they consider making it accessible to a wider group is a step in the wrong direction.

I mean they're usually assholes regardless, but I don't think their assholish reasoning is rooted in homophobia so much as general misanthropy.
6 yrs ago, 11 mos ago - Monday 2/3/14 - 3:41:27 PM EST (GMT-5)
On Monday 2/3/14 - 3:11:12 PM IRLIteach wrote:
2nd link: One gay couple in England. 3rd link: Denmark.

England is some place, Denmark is another country. Just in case you couldn't put it together that I remarked on that as part of my post in the first place.

It won't get anywhere in _________ is, I am sure, what people like you were saying years ago in _________.

6 yrs ago, 11 mos ago - Monday 2/3/14 - 5:17:14 PM EST (GMT-5)
On Monday 2/3/14 - 3:41:27 PM dacash wrote:
England is some place, Denmark is another country.

Silly me for thinking the "A" in "ACLU" stood for "American."
On Monday 2/3/14 - 3:41:27 PM dacash wrote:
Just in case you couldn't put it together that I remarked on that as part of my post in the first place.

Show me where you said that "in the first place." I want a quote w/ the timestamp. You GO ON to say it, but there was no "in the first place."
6 yrs ago, 11 mos ago - Monday 2/3/14 - 5:21:44 PM EST (GMT-5)
On Monday 2/3/14 - 5:17:14 PM IRLIteach wrote:
Show me where you said that "in the first place." I want a quote w/ the timestamp. You GO ON to say it, but there was no "in the first place."

Just scroll up a few posts and read what the link says.
6 yrs ago, 11 mos ago - Monday 2/3/14 - 5:29:39 PM EST (GMT-5)
Ah, I see what you meant now. It has nothing to do w/ what I said, though. So what does the "A" in "ACLU" stand for?

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