Research conclusion:

Intercessory prayer itself had no effect on complication-free recovery from CABG, but certainty of receiving intercessory prayer was associated with a higher incidence of complications.

http://www.ahjonline.com/article/S0002-8703(05)00649-6/abstract
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11,057 hits 2.0 (5 votes) Share Favorite | Flag 6 years ago by DaveW

A loved one needs major heart surgery. Do you tell them that you'll pray for their recovery?
Research conclusion:

Intercessory prayer itself had no effect on complication-free recovery from CABG, but certainty of receiving intercessory prayer was associated with a higher incidence of complications.

http://www.ahjonline.com/article/S0...


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6 yrs ago, 2 mos ago - Sunday 11/17/13 - 1:08:11 PM EST (GMT-5)
Prayer:

Simply a waste of time, or actually dangerous..?
6 yrs ago, 2 mos ago - Sunday 11/17/13 - 2:08:56 PM EST (GMT-5)
I would ask if they would allow me to do healing ritual for me. If they said "yes", I would do ritual. If they said "no", I would not.
6 yrs ago, 2 mos ago - Sunday 11/17/13 - 2:23:42 PM EST (GMT-5)
No, I'm not a liar.
6 yrs ago, 2 mos ago - Sunday 11/17/13 - 5:53:26 PM EST (GMT-5)
On Sunday 11/17/13 - 2:08:56 PM Wanderer wrote:
I would ask if they would allow me to do healing ritual for me. If they said "yes", I would do ritual. If they said "no", I would not.


Back in the days when I practiced, I'd cast a healing spell without bothering to ask.
6 yrs ago, 2 mos ago - Sunday 11/17/13 - 5:54:44 PM EST (GMT-5)
eh, if they're religious i might
just to keep them happy
6 yrs ago, 2 mos ago - Monday 11/18/13 - 1:25:54 AM EST (GMT-5)
What a silly study.

God is a genie, if you rub the lamp, he grants you a wish?

If that was how prayer was supposed to work, this study would be all kinds of valid. Since it isn't how it works, the study is the worst kind of nonsense.

1) prayer isn't designed to change outcomes (like healing).
2) if someone is going to pray for you, really intercede for you, then telling them not to isn't going to change whether they do or not. Likewise, telling them to do it if they aren't isn't going to be effective.It isn't a magic lamp: its a conversation with God. People either have conversations with God where they share their heart, or they do not. You can't randomly assign prayer or not.
3) Since prayer does not need to be spoken out loud, there is absolutely no way to verify people were not being prayed for. Or were being prayed for.
6 yrs ago, 2 mos ago - Monday 11/18/13 - 1:27:59 AM EST (GMT-5)
I would never say I'd pray for them to begin with.
6 yrs ago, 2 mos ago - Monday 11/18/13 - 3:20:42 AM EST (GMT-5)
Haha no. I'll say all sorts of things like "Get well soon" and "I'll be here if you need me." But I'm not going to lie to them, and I'm certainly not gonna pray!
6 yrs ago, 2 mos ago - Monday 11/18/13 - 3:21:45 AM EST (GMT-5)
No. I don't pray for anyone.
6 yrs ago, 2 mos ago - Monday 11/18/13 - 4:22:26 AM EST (GMT-5)
i say get well soon and i'll pray for you simultaneously. i don't see how an atheist would be offended by prayer, i am wishing them well.
6 yrs ago, 2 mos ago - Monday 11/18/13 - 5:46:18 AM EST (GMT-5)
I thought that said pay. I was going to be like poo no.

Then I say it said pray so I I'm still going to say poo no.
6 yrs ago, 2 mos ago - Monday 11/18/13 - 5:55:19 AM EST (GMT-5)
sometimes i say i'll pray to the universe
and i guess i do anyway
but i don't expect it to do anything

usually i just use the word 'hope' instead.
6 yrs ago, 2 mos ago - Monday 11/18/13 - 4:43:39 PM EST (GMT-5)
On Monday 11/18/13 - 1:25:54 AM dacash wrote:
<SNIP>

Three questions:

1. If prayer "isn't designed to change outcomes" does this mean that if your favourite Auntie needed a CABG, you wouldn't pray for a speedy and uncomplicated recovery?
2. If the research had shown a very different outcome, that prayer reduces morbidity and mortality for example, would you still have been so opposed to it?
3. Did you actually read the study?
6 yrs ago, 2 mos ago - Monday 11/18/13 - 5:15:23 PM EST (GMT-5)
1. I'd pray what I always pray in such situations:

God, you know what I want, you know I want a fast recovery and little pain. But Lord lead me and my friend to accomplish what you desire through this event: teach us want you want us to see. May your will be done, may you be glorified.

Very much patterned after: give us this day our daily bread... but lead us not into temptation.

2. I still would think it a ridiculous study.
3. Where do you think I got the information about how it was done?
6 yrs ago, 2 mos ago - Monday 11/18/13 - 9:50:41 PM EST (GMT-5)
If God already knows what you want, why do you have to pray?
6 yrs ago, 2 mos ago - Tuesday 11/19/13 - 1:28:03 AM EST (GMT-5)
That's not why I pray, Harry. I pray because I can't help myself. I pray because I'm helpless. I pray because the need flows out of me all the time, waking and sleeping. It doesn't change God, it changes me.

- CS Lewis in Shadowlands (facing down the death of his wife)

6 yrs ago, 2 mos ago - Tuesday 11/19/13 - 2:20:18 PM EST (GMT-5)
Yes, I would.
6 yrs ago, 2 mos ago - Tuesday 11/19/13 - 2:51:59 PM EST (GMT-5)
If everyone knew that was how prayer wasn't supposed to work anyway, there would have never been any interest in the study in the first place, dacash. The STEP study was organized by the Templeton Foundation, not some atheist group who went about using a study to undermine religious belief.
6 yrs ago, 2 mos ago - Tuesday 11/19/13 - 4:17:21 PM EST (GMT-5)
The 'change me rather than change God' thing, I suppose is a meatier depth than I'd expect someone who has a cursory knowledge of Christianity to have... but then I'd expect an erudite institution like Templeton to know it.

But having random people pray for people they don't know, that I'd expect anyone to see as unlikely to have a result, unless you really think of God like a Genie in the lamp. I'm not saying there aren't nominal Christians out there who think that way and there are plenty of non-Christians that would never pray to god that are superstitious. But I'd expect that wouldn't require a study. Like Sanders claims of craft in Generals right now, I'd hope people would realize its hokum w/o a study being performed.
6 yrs ago, 2 mos ago - Thursday 11/21/13 - 7:51:19 PM EST (GMT-5)
Yes I would pray for them and I hav prayed for a couple family members who hav gone through surgery like my pap who had a triple by pass heart surgery i prayed for him everyday.
6 yrs ago, 2 mos ago - Thursday 11/21/13 - 8:36:06 PM EST (GMT-5)
I would say it, but I wouldn't do it. I'm a hypocrite.
6 yrs ago, 2 mos ago - Friday 11/22/13 - 5:55:55 PM EST (GMT-5)
i wouldn't have to say it cause whoever it is would know i'd be praying my ass off
6 yrs ago, 2 mos ago - Friday 11/22/13 - 6:00:19 PM EST (GMT-5)
On Monday 11/18/13 - 1:27:59 AM FoolsConvert wrote:
I would never say I'd pray for them to begin with.

This.
6 yrs ago, 2 mos ago - Saturday 11/23/13 - 5:36:27 PM EST (GMT-5)
On Tuesday 11/19/13 - 4:17:21 PM dacash wrote:
But having random people pray for people they don't know, that I'd expect anyone to see as unlikely to have a result


Actually, I'm surprised it didn't work simply because of the placebo effect.

They did a study in which the patient was told that they were receiving a placebo - an injection of sterile water (which is what they were injected with) - and the placebo effect still kicked in.

Perhaps it would have made more of a difference if they made sure all of the patients were believers.
6 yrs ago, 2 mos ago - Saturday 11/23/13 - 6:37:48 PM EST (GMT-5)
If they ask me to, I'll say I will.

And then I'll set aside a few minutes that night to sit quietly and hope for their recovery.

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