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Girlgone
Female,
18-29
Southern US
Joined: 3 yrs, 3 mos ago
4,259 Posts
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2 yrs ago, 9 mos ago - Thursday 8/19/10 - 3:03:07 PM EST (GMT-5)
I saw a CNN pole that said 68% of the people think it should not be built. So much for religious tolerance. Wonder what it would be if the Terrorists were all Catholic?
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2 yrs ago, 9 mos ago - Thursday 8/19/10 - 3:04:31 PM EST (GMT-5)
^ Go to the UK, they'll be able to tell you there.
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2 yrs ago, 9 mos ago - Thursday 8/19/10 - 3:44:42 PM EST (GMT-5)
On Thursday 8/19/10 - 2:47:10 PM marc780 wrote:
No, just as soon as we build a Church at Mecca. THEN they can build their mosque there. |
Oh, say does that star-spangled banner yet wave,
O'er the land of the free and the home of the brave... |
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Girlgone
Female,
18-29
Southern US
Joined: 3 yrs, 3 mos ago
4,259 Posts
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2 yrs ago, 9 mos ago - Thursday 8/19/10 - 3:58:57 PM EST (GMT-5)
We need Superman to fix everything
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2 yrs ago, 9 mos ago - Thursday 8/19/10 - 4:01:38 PM EST (GMT-5)
On Thursday 8/19/10 - 3:03:07 PM Girlgone wrote:
I saw a CNN pole that said 68% of the people think it should not be built. So much for religious tolerance. Wonder what it would be if the Terrorists were all Catholic? |
Is it really a matter of 'religious tolerance' or a matter of bitter feelings toward the guys that killed a bunch of people while claiming to be acting on behalf of Islam?
The proposed Mosque near ground zero tends to remind people of the unfortunate events of 9/11 rather than the symbol of tolerance and peace that it is intended to be, so people tend to oppose rather than embrace the plan.
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Girlgone
Female,
18-29
Southern US
Joined: 3 yrs, 3 mos ago
4,259 Posts
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2 yrs ago, 9 mos ago - Thursday 8/19/10 - 4:10:11 PM EST (GMT-5)
I understand but isnt that kinda the same as not wanting a Lutheran Church built if the terrorists were mostly Lutheran?
Its not fair to the millions of Muslim and are non violent and the Muslims that were also killed in 9/11.
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2 yrs ago, 9 mos ago - Thursday 8/19/10 - 4:19:27 PM EST (GMT-5)
On Thursday 8/19/10 - 4:10:11 PM Girlgone wrote:
I understand but isnt that kinda the same as not wanting a Lutheran Church built if the terrorists were mostly Lutheran? Its not fair to the millions of Muslim and are non violent and the Muslims that were also killed in 9/11. |
Yes- - but that's still not an issue of religious tolerance, it's a matter of the strong emotional feelings that people still have regarding the attacks.
I don't necessarily think it's unfair to the millions of non-violent Muslims either. It's a local issue that should be decided by the feelings of those who were affected the most by the 9/11 attacks- - the family and friends of those lost in the attacks and those that survived them. Their feelings on the issue seem more important than people that are farther removed.
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2 yrs ago, 9 mos ago - Thursday 8/19/10 - 4:23:27 PM EST (GMT-5)
^ Then why is it politicians and such who are raising the most hell? How did it get past local approval process if it's so glaringly disrespectful to New Yorkers? I know, for example, that the other businesses around the block - like, oh, Pussycat Lounge and New York Dolls - don't care that much about it.
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2 yrs ago, 9 mos ago - Thursday 8/19/10 - 4:26:21 PM EST (GMT-5)
If politicians think an issue will gain them some votes against their opponent, they are going to bring it up- - it's part of the electoral process...
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2 yrs ago, 9 mos ago - Thursday 8/19/10 - 4:31:57 PM EST (GMT-5)
"Their feelings on the issue seem more important than people that are farther removed."
Like most politicians.
Point isn't that I'm surprised they are. The point is that their actions are directly opposed to your value as stated. And of course they'll use whatever PR boost they can get. It just doesn't reflect well on their consistency and character when they do.
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Girlgone
Female,
18-29
Southern US
Joined: 3 yrs, 3 mos ago
4,259 Posts
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2 yrs ago, 9 mos ago - Thursday 8/19/10 - 4:33:14 PM EST (GMT-5)
How is it not religious intolerance? If the Catholic Church wanted to build there, would anyone say no? Or if the attackers all wore red hats, would everyone ban red hats now? Muslims attacked us so all Muslims are bad. You can have strong emotional feelings but dont blame an entire religion for a few awful guys.
Haha, yeah the Pussycat Lounge wont care and I think there are already a number of Mosques in that area.
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2 yrs ago, 9 mos ago - Thursday 8/19/10 - 4:35:56 PM EST (GMT-5)
They aren't blaming an entire religion. They aren't blocking mosque construction anywhere else in the US, they are only concerned with building this mosque so close to ground zero.
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IRLIteach
Male,
30-39
Southern US
Joined: 6 yrs, 9 mos ago
26,843 Posts
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2 yrs ago, 9 mos ago - Thursday 8/19/10 - 4:40:17 PM EST (GMT-5)
On Thursday 8/19/10 - 4:01:38 PM CowDung wrote:
Is it really a matter of 'religious tolerance' or a matter of bitter feelings toward the guys that killed a bunch of people while claiming to be acting on behalf of Islam? The proposed Mosque near ground zero tends to remind people of the unfortunate events of 9/11 rather than the symbol of tolerance and peace that it is intended to be, so people tend to oppose rather than embrace the plan. |
That's well said, CD. If the plans are scrapped, I think it needs to be clear that the people who pushed for such were driven by bitterness and suckers for a conspiratorial, anti-Muslim spin, and that the people who planned the mosque were very noble in their intentions.
I can accept making concessions sometimes (repeat, *SOMETIMES*) for politics, but not failing to identify them as such. |
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Girlgone
Female,
18-29
Southern US
Joined: 3 yrs, 3 mos ago
4,259 Posts
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2 yrs ago, 9 mos ago - Thursday 8/19/10 - 4:49:42 PM EST (GMT-5)
On Thursday 8/19/10 - 4:35:56 PM CowDung wrote:
They aren't blaming an entire religion. They aren't blocking mosque construction anywhere else in the US, they are only concerned with building this mosque so close to ground zero. |
But why cant they build close? They are saying that a mosque reminds them of 9/11and that is condemning an entire religion. And I think there are a number of Mosques that people are trying to block. I think one is in Florida. |
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IRLIteach
Male,
30-39
Southern US
Joined: 6 yrs, 9 mos ago
26,843 Posts
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2 yrs ago, 9 mos ago - Thursday 8/19/10 - 4:52:59 PM EST (GMT-5)
IDK about the one in Fla, girlgone, and it's another conversation anyway. Based on my experience, you're going to have to pin CD down on what this conversation is actually about. He's not really arguing in favor of one side or another here, just defining one side. So you ask why they can't build close? There's no good answer to that, and CD won't offer one. They *can* build close. CD is just going to state and restate what some vague others object to.
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bluedaisy11
Female,
18-29
Western US
Joined: 5 yrs, 10 mos ago
7,776 Posts
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2 yrs ago, 9 mos ago - Thursday 8/19/10 - 4:55:08 PM EST (GMT-5)
I am digusted that only 25% of you think its offensive that a mosque could be built at the site of the death of 3000 people-caused by Muslims.
To them, its a sign of conquest. No they don't want to blow up more bombs. But they do want to give a message that they have the power.
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Girlgone
Female,
18-29
Southern US
Joined: 3 yrs, 3 mos ago
4,259 Posts
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2 yrs ago, 9 mos ago - Thursday 8/19/10 - 4:59:19 PM EST (GMT-5)
I understand that CD was explaining and I appreciated it. I just dont understand how this isnt religious intolerance. Seems so sad that we are fighting wars to help Muslims and religious freedom and then we blame an entire religion for a few idiots.
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Girlgone
Female,
18-29
Southern US
Joined: 3 yrs, 3 mos ago
4,259 Posts
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2 yrs ago, 9 mos ago - Thursday 8/19/10 - 5:01:14 PM EST (GMT-5)
On Thursday 8/19/10 - 4:55:08 PM bluedaisy11 wrote:
I am digusted that only 25% of you think its offensive that a mosque could be built at the site of the death of 3000 people-caused by Muslims. To them, its a sign of conquest. No they don't want to blow up more bombs. But they do want to give a message that they have the power. |
Ok, I give up |
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QuizzesRUs
Female,
13-17
Southern US
Joined: 3 yrs, 2 mos ago
54 Posts
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2 yrs ago, 9 mos ago - Thursday 8/19/10 - 5:04:42 PM EST (GMT-5)
I'm not offended because:
Not all Arabs are the same
I have nothing against religion
They gotta do what they gotta do like us
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2 yrs ago, 9 mos ago - Thursday 8/19/10 - 5:29:00 PM EST (GMT-5)
On Thursday 8/19/10 - 4:49:42 PM Girlgone wrote:
But why cant they build close? They are saying that a mosque reminds them of 9/11and that is condemning an entire religion. And I think there are a number of Mosques that people are trying to block. I think one is in Florida. |
I've only heard of objections to the one near ground zero, and it is pretty understandable why emotions on the issue would run quite a bit higher there than in the rest of the country. If they are indeed objecting to mosques in other parts of the country, then it is likely due to intolerance of Islam rather than it being an emotional link to the 9/11 attacks.
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2 yrs ago, 9 mos ago - Thursday 8/19/10 - 5:33:52 PM EST (GMT-5)
As far as the 'building close' question, I would guess that the location makes it more likely to be viewed as a symbol of a Muslim 'victory' on 9/11 rather than a symbol of Islamic religion itself...
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IRLIteach
Male,
30-39
Southern US
Joined: 6 yrs, 9 mos ago
26,843 Posts
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2 yrs ago, 9 mos ago - Thursday 8/19/10 - 5:34:47 PM EST (GMT-5)
Even in the case of the downtown Manhattan one, CD, it could *still* be religious bigotry in addition to the understandable emotion of it all.
At the end of the day, I don't think such decisions should be made based entirely on emotion anyway.
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2 yrs ago, 9 mos ago - Thursday 8/19/10 - 5:37:48 PM EST (GMT-5)
Certainly it *could* be, but I think that emotions are more likely what is driving the opposition (at least in the New York area).
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IRLIteach
Male,
30-39
Southern US
Joined: 6 yrs, 9 mos ago
26,843 Posts
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2 yrs ago, 9 mos ago - Thursday 8/19/10 - 5:45:35 PM EST (GMT-5)
If that's the case, then talking people in from their emotional ledge will result in their understanding and accepting the nobility behind this project. And we should indeed try to get past emotions to a point where decisions can be made rationally.
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2 yrs ago, 9 mos ago - Thursday 8/19/10 - 5:56:05 PM EST (GMT-5)
You can certainly try, but emotions and logic don't usually fit together very well.
It's easy to say that we can move past the emotions when we are sitting hundreds of miles away from New York and haven't had to deal with the losses and hardships that those living there have suffered (and continue to suffer with)...
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