that's why it's called faith.

yes, and to me at least, that's very much the point

though if I was in the audience I'd probably be angry that I had to listen to Dawkins

Yes.

On Tuesday 4/24/12 - 7:20:40 PM Kungfullama wrote: though if I was in the audience I'd probably be angry that I had to listen to Dawkins

Is that because he owns every debate opponent he has?

Because it's for that reason I love Dawkins.

Isn't that the definition?

Christians usually claim to have evidence. I guess it depends on what you call "evidence."

i have honestly never heard a christian say they have evidence for god.

On Tuesday 4/24/12 - 9:11:55 PM ThatZachGuy wrote: Christians usually claim to have evidence. I guess it depends on what you call "evidence."

This.
Some have emotional evidence but not physical.

Richard Dawkins is a genius.
Now some believe thinking they have their own little "evidence" of God, but faith is believing something that cannot be seen, but if they believe they have evidence than they aren't following by faith, because evidence is seen or in some cases "experienced", so those people aren't really following by faith, it defeats the meaning of faith, it's their faith that makes them believe that their "evidence" is evidence from/of God, it makes that person think that they "know" that God is real, lets call that super faith. It's actually very sad that they believe because of an experience, I use to be like that, and my mother is still like that. She tells me these experiences and asks me to explain them, things that can relate to Algebra, A turned to B, B turned to C, C turned to D and so on. Sure I can't explain them, but if I saw it all in a bird view,

(cont.) it would probably be all easy to explain, and yet I already have a good idea of why and how come.

do you have an alter just for atheist arguments?

On Tuesday 4/24/12 - 9:11:55 PM ThatZachGuy wrote: Christians usually claim to have evidence. I guess it depends on what you call "evidence."

On Tuesday 4/24/12 - 9:47:27 PM JessaJ223 wrote: This. Some have emotional evidence but not physical.

I guess a lot of white racists have similar 'emotional evidence' that they are superior to other races

On Wednesday 4/25/12 - 5:52:56 AM AnAtheist wrote: Richard Dawkins is a genius.

Agreed. He's a bit of a douche, as well.

He's essentially right on the definition of faith. It is believing w/o proof/evidence. But that doesn't mean people of faith have no process or standards. Consider how many former believers here who are now atheists cite examples of hypocrisy, corruption, dishonor, abusiveness, and other undesirable qualities among religious people as part of how they stopped believing. Well, more often than not, people of faith have positive examples of faith at work in others' lives that helps support their own faith. IOW, we have our reasons; it's not just some random thing we decided on for no reason at all.

I think Dawkins is a genius evolutionary biologist and that he should have stuck with that. he's not entirely respected in academic philosophy, mostly for playing philosopher dress-up

And for being an ass.

On Tuesday 4/24/12 - 7:20:03 PM Kungfullama wrote: yes, and to me at least, that's very much the point

Agreed. It seems that one of the main points of religion is to make that leap of faith in the first place.

Which makes literature out there trying to make "a case for God" all the more counterproductive, I think.

There's plenty of evidence.
Just ask for a sign or a spiritual experience, be insistent upon it and you'll have it.

I never used to be spiritual before, but after spiritual experiences, I don't "believe" but I know.

God is a term used to describe the concept of spirituality, which is opposed to physical reality. If you "believe" in the concept of good and evil (which are unseen but merely concepts) then you should belive in "God" and spirituality.

On Tuesday 4/24/12 - 9:11:55 PM ThatZachGuy wrote: Christians usually claim to have evidence. I guess it depends on what you call "evidence."

On Tuesday 4/24/12 - 9:47:27 PM JessaJ223 wrote: This. Some have emotional evidence but not physical.

On Wednesday 4/25/12 - 7:41:42 AM glennh70 wrote: I guess a lot of white racists have similar 'emotional evidence' that they are superior to other races

You'd have to go find a white racist to confirm that.

On Wednesday 4/25/12 - 12:43:34 PM Lynn_19 wrote: There's plenty of evidence. Just ask for a sign or a spiritual experience, be insistent upon it and you'll have it... If you "believe" in the concept of good and evil (which are unseen but merely concepts) then you should belive in "God" and spirituality.

Asking for a sign predisposes you to faith in the first place, and makes it more likely for you to interpret any random event as a "sign."

Comparing belief in good to a belief in God is a false analogy. It's a lot like comparing it to love. When atheists say there's no evidence for God, we're not just saying, "oh, whatever isn't completely embodied in a physical object TOTALLY DOESN'T EXIST and that's why we don't believe in God." Concepts of good and evil are personal moral judgments that we know everyone has. God is supposed to be an objective reality.

BlackBird:

"Asking for a sign predisposes you to faith in the first place, and makes it more likely for you to interpret any random event as a "sign."

>>>No, signs are symbols, they need no faith. They do need intuition, and pattern recognition if they are subtle. But some can be loud and clear.

"God is supposed to be an objective reality."
>>>you are making a judgment on your idea of "god", which is likened to a human or ceramic statute

"Comparing belief in good to a belief in God is a false analogy. It's a lot like comparing it to love."

>>>some may argue that God is Love, and not tangible. Love is also faith. But to those who experienced it, it is not a myth, but real as they come.

There's precedent in Christian scripture, BB77, of nonbelievers receiving a sign and therefore believing. Saul/Paul comes immediately to mind. While the very definition of faith precludes such proof, it's not really as cut and dry in reality as in the dictionary.

'There's plenty of evidence.
Just ask for a sign or a spiritual experience, be insistent upon it and you'll have it. ' I did - nothing happened

Contrary to what science may believe, not everything has an explanation.

i'm sure everything has an explanation. we aren't at a point to have all those explanations though. i doubt that point would ever be reached.