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11,411 hits 1.7 (6 votes) Share Favorite | Flag 10 years ago by JayY

Who does god hate?


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10 yrs ago, 6 mos ago - Tuesday 8/3/10 - 7:16:36 PM EST (GMT-5)
On Friday 7/23/10 - 1:59:58 AM seta wrote:
he hates nothing he loves all but to those who say different there is such a thing as tough love

Never get an abusive boyfriend, I don't want to pull you out of the sewer because you believe in "tough love."
10 yrs ago, 6 mos ago - Tuesday 8/3/10 - 9:25:52 PM EST (GMT-5)
Canadians.
10 yrs ago, 6 mos ago - Wednesday 8/4/10 - 11:56:37 AM EST (GMT-5)
Hate and Love both are shown with a passion. but to show both is Fear.
10 yrs ago, 6 mos ago - Wednesday 8/4/10 - 2:13:34 PM EST (GMT-5)
On Monday 8/2/10 - 10:46:09 AM dacash wrote:
What is a moral? How do you define this word in a way that allows an atheist to have them?

anyone can have morals even if they're athiest. you can set limits to yourself and set standards for your dates your apearance your actions and yourself. that is what a moral is.
10 yrs ago, 6 mos ago - Wednesday 8/4/10 - 2:28:36 PM EST (GMT-5)
Then a moral is just a standard? Then why don't you call it a standard? I think it is because that isn't what it means.
10 yrs ago, 6 mos ago - Wednesday 8/4/10 - 2:33:23 PM EST (GMT-5)
On Wednesday 8/4/10 - 2:28:36 PM dacash wrote:
Then a moral is just a standard? Then why don't you call it a standard? I think it is because that isn't what it means.


I think "morals" relate to not infringing on the rights of others, which is beyond the boundaries of religion.
10 yrs ago, 6 mos ago - Wednesday 8/4/10 - 4:09:22 PM EST (GMT-5)
On Tuesday 8/3/10 - 12:05:46 AM dacash wrote:
Can we agree then, that to be moral, one must consistently follow an unchanging code of behavior?


Not really. Morality changes as a society evolves. It used to be considered immoral to marry someone of a different skin colour.

It used to be considered immoral for a woman to wear a skirt that showed her ankles.
10 yrs ago, 6 mos ago - Wednesday 8/4/10 - 5:19:28 PM EST (GMT-5)
So we are talking in what is considered moral and not some set standard of morality that is moral to reality. In effect, situational ethics, and not really morals at all.
10 yrs ago, 6 mos ago - Wednesday 8/4/10 - 9:07:08 PM EST (GMT-5)
If you define a moral as something inherent to the nature of the universe and by it's very definition unchanging and unchangeable, and further that anyone who does not believe the universe works like that is then amoral, then yes, most atheists are probably amoral.

That's a totally a*shatted definition of "moral" though essentially designed to rule out anyone who isn't religious and probably religious in a dogmatic and fundamentalist way too.

My sense of morals and ethics comes from my empathy, my sense of community and a basic compassion for all people. (and to a lesser extent, animals and even plants to some small degree), I don't think it's innate to the universe, that there are rules that just ARE and cannot be argued.

What I consider good, I consider good from the standpoint of 'Improving the life of people" or "making the world a better place to live in"
10 yrs ago, 6 mos ago - Wednesday 8/4/10 - 9:09:58 PM EST (GMT-5)

Granted, it's not as easy as getting them handed down arbitrarily by a deity

We have to figure out what is 'good' and why it is good. We have to figure out what is bad, and why it is bad.

There are no easy answers.

I find the notion of being called amoral (a word with a very negative connotation, implying that I have no qualms doing just whatever to whoever, etc.) just because I don't derive my rules from some imagined deity, to be extremely offensive.
10 yrs ago, 6 mos ago - Wednesday 8/4/10 - 9:38:28 PM EST (GMT-5)
"That's a totally a*shatted definition of "moral" though essentially designed to rule out anyone who isn't religious and probably religious in a dogmatic and fundamentalist way too."

Either truth is unchanging or it isn't truth. That has nothing to do with being religious or fundamental.
10 yrs ago, 6 mos ago - Wednesday 8/4/10 - 9:38:50 PM EST (GMT-5)
And see, I didn't need to call you an asshat to make my point.
10 yrs ago, 6 mos ago - Wednesday 8/4/10 - 10:16:27 PM EST (GMT-5)
To be fair, I said it was an asshatish definition, not that you were necessarily an asshat. Just like someone can make a foolish mistake without being a fool in all circumstances, one can have an asshatted notion without being necessarily an asshat.
10 yrs ago, 6 mos ago - Wednesday 8/4/10 - 10:24:42 PM EST (GMT-5)
Right and wrong aren't truths in the way that say, the atomic theory is truth. They're relative truths. True for a given standard. Kicking a man is wrong for the standard that you shouldn't hurt people without a good reason. It is not wrong in the context of a voluntary kickboxing match.

Eating a human corpse is wrong when it will shock and hurt relatives of the deceased, but not if absolutely required for survival, or in a culture where everyone believed that in this way the soul was preserved, etc.
10 yrs ago, 6 mos ago - Thursday 8/5/10 - 9:01:56 AM EST (GMT-5)
I don't believe He hates anyone. That's part of the Bible I disagree with; parts that say He hates... anyone, really. I've got to remind myself that the Bible was still written by men and bits were added in/taken out to suit their own purposes.
10 yrs ago, 6 mos ago - Thursday 8/5/10 - 10:28:05 AM EST (GMT-5)
Well, I could argue your example (I think kick boxing match itself is immoral because all violence is immoral) but that isn't really the point. The point is that you are saying morality is relative or situational. And I cannot agree. Truth is not relative, it is eternal - it is absolute, or it is not really truth.

All you make in your second example is a show that some morals have greater value than others, and that in some extreme conditions we have to choose which is the greater. It doesn't cause the lesser moral to stop being true. I wouldn't even put "not using a body to shock people" on the level of morals, but rather on the level of being polite.
10 yrs ago, 6 mos ago - Thursday 8/5/10 - 11:18:38 AM EST (GMT-5)
"Moral relativism", it has the connotation that people then just use whatever justification seems ok to do whatever they want.

But that's not it at all. There are ideals that you hold, but you hold them not because they are written in the fabric of the universe, but because you believe they will lead to a better tomorrow, to the improvement of life. And like you say, there are greater and lesser ones. You suspend the lesser ones in order to preserve the greater ones, etc.

Why does something have to be universally true in order to be moral?
10 yrs ago, 6 mos ago - Thursday 8/5/10 - 11:26:40 AM EST (GMT-5)
On Thursday 8/5/10 - 11:18:38 AM AndresH wrote:
"Moral relativism", it has the connotation that people then just use whatever justification seems ok to do whatever they want.

Because that's the way they are. Like you say, "you believe..." and what you believe changes all the time (because you don't believe in eternal truths or absolutes). And you may, in your head, have in mind the highest principles. But it still just amounts to a fancy way of saying that you do as you damn well please.

Which, is actually why something must be universally true to be moral.
10 yrs ago, 6 mos ago - Thursday 8/5/10 - 1:00:29 PM EST (GMT-5)
So, supposing that there isn't a universal morality that is eternal, there is no morality at all?

If you found out such a thing were true, would that then make you amoral? Or would you still try to act with a certain decency and kindness to your fellow man?

I think this definition of morality is too narrow, and in fact, a not so subtle attempt to make anyone who is not religious a bad person by definition, because you will be able to call them amoral.
10 yrs ago, 6 mos ago - Thursday 8/5/10 - 1:09:00 PM EST (GMT-5)
Yes.

How would finding it make you amoral? Wouldn't the not following it/accepting it make you amoral? I'm going with being decent as being part, or at least an outcome of that universal morality.

I think there is no reason to compromise moral stances because someone may be offended by something that they want to be. it is like liberals who hate being called liberals. It makes no sense.
10 yrs ago, 6 mos ago - Thursday 8/5/10 - 1:10:44 PM EST (GMT-5)
No way God hates. If there is a God then he/she is far above such stupid stuff. People try to put God in their terms and its so dumb. Its up to us to make earth a nice place or kill everyone.
10 yrs ago, 6 mos ago - Thursday 8/5/10 - 1:45:40 PM EST (GMT-5)
I don't have a problem with the general idea of universal morality, exactly (even if I don't buy it totally, from an epistemological naturalist stance).

I do have a problem with an enumerable, codified universal morality, particularly when those codified morals express as negatives. Basically, it's kind of like the argument about tennis - someone could always throw the ball up out of the atmosphere on a serve attempt, it would "break" the game as it is, and then we'd have to make a new rule. And there's always (in theory) a way to "break" the game without violating the negative rules in place. It's kind of like an incompleteness of a negatively stated morality system, in less rigorous terms.
10 yrs ago, 6 mos ago - Thursday 8/5/10 - 1:49:38 PM EST (GMT-5)
It's more like liberals not liking that being equated with being 'anti-american' or something like that.

Your stance on morality is that it is God given and unchangeable. My stance on morality is that it is man made and a product of natural evolution to some degree, and we have to figure out what morals will serve us best for making a better world. But I still call them morals. I don't think you have any right to claim monopoly on the word.

It's like me saying that nobody can be good unless he's good on his own initiative without having to be prodded to by some higher power (and threatened with hell if he isn't and rewarded with heaven if he is)

Morals are codes of conduct that you develop over the course of your life. You don't need to believe that they are God imposed in order for them to be meaningful.
10 yrs ago, 6 mos ago - Thursday 8/5/10 - 2:00:56 PM EST (GMT-5)
While I do believe that morals are subjective, to a certain extent, my personal belief is that morality boils down to one thing, regardless of religion:

Do NOT infringe on the rights of others. Murder and rape, therefore, are always morally wrong because you are taking away a person's right to live or to not be sexually assaulted.

As long as you aren't hurting anyone, you're not behaving in an immoral way.

The gray area occurs when you question whether or not hurting YOURSELF is morally wrong.
10 yrs ago, 6 mos ago - Thursday 8/5/10 - 2:11:01 PM EST (GMT-5)
What if a baby dies at birth? Does he go to heaven or hell? What he didnt die and grew up to kill people? God knows that he would have grown up to be a monster so is it off to hell for the little baby?

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