[link] ``Bowe Bergdahl received a dishonorable discharge from the US Army but will avoid prison time for desertion and misbehavior before the enemy after abandoning his outpost in Afghanistan in... Who's Online | Find Members | Private Messages
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Sgt. Bowe Bergdahl gets dishonorable discharge, no prison time

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16 days ago - Friday 11/3/17 - 8:14:26 PM EST (GMT-5)
http://www.cnn.com/2017/11/03/polit...

"Bowe Bergdahl received a dishonorable discharge from the US Army but will avoid prison time for desertion and misbehavior before the enemy after abandoning his outpost in Afghanistan in 2009, a military judge ruled Friday.
The judge also ruled that Bergdahl's rank be reduced from sergeant to private. Additionally, he will be required to pay a $1,000 fine from his salary for the next 10 months."

16 days ago - Friday 11/3/17 - 8:23:29 PM EST (GMT-5)
Interesting that part of his defense was that the Army never should have let him in in the first place, due to "multiple mental illnesses" including schizotypal disorder and PTSD.

Also interesting: his defense attorneys asked the judge to dismiss the case because they didn't believe he could get a fair trial due to Trump statements. The judge didn't dismiss, bu the did use Trump statements as mitigation evidence in sentencing. Trump apparently made remarks on the campaign trail about how Bergdahl was "a dirty rotten traitor" who "should be shot."
16 days ago - Saturday 11/4/17 - 12:07:27 AM EST (GMT-5)
Or throw out of a plane with no shoot.

If he failed to disclose when he came in that is on him. If the army waivered him in its on them.

Though i’m Glad he’s not getting time. Sure he put himself there but he was in a small cage for four of his five years captive, tried to escaped as he should have, then used his time collecting intel.
16 days ago - Saturday 11/4/17 - 12:09:49 AM EST (GMT-5)
Plus that dishonorable discharge is going to drat him if he’s even capable of functioning in society at this point.

I knew a coulee people in my unit who should have never been let in on mental health grounds. Like my crazy roooomste on deployment who kept talking about killing him self.
16 days ago - Saturday 11/4/17 - 12:28:54 AM EST (GMT-5)
It concerns me that he won't be able to get VA healthcare benefits.

Regardless of the circumstances of their capture, I just don't think someone who's been held captive by the Taliban for half a decade should be abandoned like that. He is still a person, and one who is going to probably need extensive psychological counseling, because that is a major trauma.
16 days ago - Saturday 11/4/17 - 1:31:37 AM EST (GMT-5)
I think CNN has made a typo. The fine is 10 000$
16 days ago - Saturday 11/4/17 - 1:35:11 AM EST (GMT-5)
It's $10,000 altogether from $1000 each month.
16 days ago - Saturday 11/4/17 - 1:35:22 AM EST (GMT-5)
For 10 months.
16 days ago - Saturday 11/4/17 - 1:35:38 AM EST (GMT-5)
Duh. Sorry. I should be in bed.
16 days ago - Saturday 11/4/17 - 3:53:29 AM EST (GMT-5)
Bergdahl's attorneys asked the judge for leniency during sentencing hearings, arguing he had a previously undiagnosed mental illness when he left his post.

If it was undiagnosed he wouldn't have been able to declare it.

The court's remarks seem directed at a plea of not guilty by reason of insanity, rather than treating this as mitigating circumstances. I wonder why he chose not to be tried by a regular jury rather than by the military.
16 days ago - Saturday 11/4/17 - 3:58:31 AM EST (GMT-5)
Probably because a military court would better understand what he went through as a prisoner?

Also, he did not use an insanity defense, so I don't know what you're talking about there. He pleaded guilty.
16 days ago - Saturday 11/4/17 - 4:50:07 AM EST (GMT-5)
It's not suprising to me that you don't.

He used his mental health as mitigating circumstances. As I said.

The court's comments seemed more dIrected at an insanity defence than that.

"government prosecutors said Bergdahl was aware of the risks when he deserted,". ie: does not qualify under the M'Naghten rules.

Whether he was aware of the risks shouldn't nullify his mental health as mitigating circumstances. If anything it should highlight the pressure he was under.

A civil court would not be so disproving of his actions as a military court.

A Military court has a vested interest in upholding their own code of behavior. If the military isn't going to try to cover it's own ass in an investigation, a soldier has a much better chance of a lenient sentance from a civil court. Juries don't tend to uphold "Military honour" as much as a bunch of high ranking officers.
16 days ago - Saturday 11/4/17 - 5:03:39 AM EST (GMT-5)
Maybe you're misunderstanding what this proceeding was.
It wasn't a trial to determine guilt or innocence. It was a sentencing hearing. That's why I'm not sure why you're bringing an insanity defense into it - that doesn't apply here at all.

What comments by the court are you referring to, that were supposedly "directed at an insanity defense"?
16 days ago - Saturday 11/4/17 - 6:12:19 AM EST (GMT-5)
You already said you don't understand and I tried to explain it to you. Perhaps ypou should read what I said again just more carefully and it should be clear.

1) He used his mental health as mitigating circumstances. As I said. .... Ie, NOT as an insanity plea.

So stop bathering on about that, It just makes you look stupid.

2) The prosecuting council dismmissed this by presenting an arguement that he was aware of the risks of his actions. An argument more suited to a not guilty by reasom of inanity plea. WHICH IS NOT WHAT HE HAD SUBMITTED.

I quoted the comments in my post but I'll do it again for you.

"government prosecutors said Bergdahl was aware of the risks when he deserted,". ie: does not qualify under the M'Naghten rules.
16 days ago - Saturday 11/4/17 - 7:00:50 AM EST (GMT-5)
You keep referencing "the court's comments" and then quoting what the prosecuting attorneys said. Those aren't the same thing.
15 days ago - Sunday 11/5/17 - 2:34:22 AM EST (GMT-5)
In a military setting, I would beg to differ. They are essentialy the same thing.

That's why it was a poor decision to forgo a Jury trial.
15 days ago - Sunday 11/5/17 - 11:01:58 AM EST (GMT-5)
On Saturday 11/4/17 - 3:53:29 AM Boredofu wrote:
...I wonder why he chose not to be tried by a regular jury rather than by the military.


Isn't the choice just between a military judge or military jury? Because desertion is a military charge, courts-martial would have exclusive jurisdiction. (And unlike civilian courts, it's the jury which passes sentence if they convict; Bergdahl, or his lawyers, probably thought they'd be more likely to get leniency out of a judge than a jury of soldiers.)

Insanity as an actual defense is very restricted: you have to prove he was unable to understand he was breaking the rules at the time, and that very rarely succeeds. There's more latitude when using it as mitigation, though.

As it is, all he got was a dishonorable discharge and a $10k fine. Would he really have done better with a jury deciding on it? Could have been much worse!
14 days ago - Sunday 11/5/17 - 3:57:53 PM EST (GMT-5)
I’m under no illusions about what a plea of insanity involves. You have already said you don’t know what I am talking about and I tried to explain it a number of times. At this point you should just accept that you don’t get it and move on.
14 days ago - Sunday 11/5/17 - 4:49:57 PM EST (GMT-5)
aren’t there psych evals done for people wishing to join the military?
14 days ago - Sunday 11/5/17 - 5:44:00 PM EST (GMT-5)
There was for bomb disposal in my day.
14 days ago - Sunday 11/5/17 - 5:50:17 PM EST (GMT-5)
On Sunday 11/5/17 - 4:49:57 PM Inquizitor2 wrote:
aren’t there psych evals done for people wishing to join the military?


I didn’t have one I even had a Secret clearance, perhaps certain jobs are looked at.
14 days ago - Sunday 11/5/17 - 5:51:16 PM EST (GMT-5)
On Sunday 11/5/17 - 4:49:57 PM Inquizitor2 wrote:
aren’t there psych evals done for people wishing to join the military?

Afaik, nope.
Else my son's birth father wouldn't have done what he did.
14 days ago - Sunday 11/5/17 - 5:56:22 PM EST (GMT-5)
A friend of mine applied to join the Marines, he said he passed the intelligence test but failed the psychology test. (He was really thick as sh*t) Like village idiot level.
14 days ago - Sunday 11/5/17 - 6:26:08 PM EST (GMT-5)
On Sunday 11/5/17 - 4:49:57 PM Inquizitor2 wrote:
aren’t there psych evals done for people wishing to join the military?

You know, I had a Top Secret clearance when I was in. And I can not for the life of me remember whether I had a psyche eval during my extensive background check.
14 days ago - Sunday 11/5/17 - 6:28:13 PM EST (GMT-5)
I mean you have to disclose mental health history on your security forms. But if you are undiagnosed at the time or lie i’m Not sure they would get those records.

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