Texas’ power grid was “seconds and minutes” away from a catastrophic failure that could have left Texans in the dark for months, officials with the entity that operates the grid... Who's Online | Find Members | Private Messages
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Texas cold snap caused power grid to be "seconds and minutes" away from months-long power outages

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3 days ago - Tuesday 2/23/21 - 11:42:53 AM EST (GMT-5)
On Tuesday 2/23/21 - 10:26:49 AM sheady wrote:
dude I seriously cannot wait for you to be on the receiving end of something like this then see your opinion.
On Tuesday 2/23/21 - 11:39:30 AM Noldor wrote:
My opinion would be exactly the same. As CD pointed out, they aren't raising prices to "gouge" the customer. It costs them more money to provide that service to you too.


Griddy isn't controlling the prices.
3 days ago - Tuesday 2/23/21 - 11:47:21 AM EST (GMT-5)
"Griddy, which launched in 2017, charges $10 a month to give people a way to pay wholesale prices for electricity instead of a fixed rate. It warned customers of raising prices and urged them to switch providers. The company said wholesale prices returned to normal as of Feb. 20."

The price is set by supply/demand:

"Wholesale electricity prices fluctuate based on demand. Because natural gas pipelines and wind turbines froze up in Texas, there was less power available, but high demand for electricity, causing wholesale prices to shoot up, said Joshua Rhodes, an energy research associate at the University of Texas."

"Rhodes said bailing out customers may be a hard sell since they opted to pay wholesale prices and may have paid a much lower price than others for some time."

https://apnews.com/article/texas-hi...
3 days ago - Tuesday 2/23/21 - 3:59:36 PM EST (GMT-5)
it is 100% price gouging regardless of who gets the money, it is an essential service that thanks to deregulation is vastly inadequate to provide even the most basic of service people are paying for, to then turn around and increase prices by such an exorbitant amount in an emergency lacks any core level of decency and I'm extremely happy to see people turning around and suing these companies for the impact they've had on the lives of people.

people without power died, so those lucky enough to have power were then extorted to use the power they could access to not succumb to the same state.

the reduced capacity is because of the broken system THEY are meant to maintain and expand which they didn't despite being told repeatedly it was inadequate.

this isn't a political issue, it's a decency one and I'm not surprised to see the King and Prince of Pedantry defend it.
3 days ago - Tuesday 2/23/21 - 8:33:28 PM EST (GMT-5)
This isn't price gouging- - it's the wholesale price of energy. The price they had been paying was far less than customers that chose the fixed rate plan. If the customers chose the fixed rate plan, they would have continued to pay the same rate for their energy- - no gouging.

3 days ago - Tuesday 2/23/21 - 8:35:42 PM EST (GMT-5)
The inadequate power system and blackouts are another issue entirely.
3 days ago - Tuesday 2/23/21 - 8:49:09 PM EST (GMT-5)
...and you don't seem to complain about the power companies having to absorb their losses when they have customers paying 12 cents/kw-hour for energy while the company needs to pay $9 per kw-hour (75 times more than they are charging their customers) for that energy.
2 days ago - Wednesday 2/24/21 - 10:12:56 AM EST (GMT-5)
you have the empathy of a slug, I'm done.
2 days ago - Wednesday 2/24/21 - 11:32:42 AM EST (GMT-5)
It has nothing to do with empathy
2 days ago - Wednesday 2/24/21 - 11:35:20 AM EST (GMT-5)
Sorry you don't agree, but this really isn't an issue of price gouging, and the people facing these high bills have been paying rates that are significantly lower than what the fixed rate customers have been paying.

These people had a choice to pay the fixed rate (which is typically 3-4 times higher than the variable wholesale rate). They chose the variable rate and accept the risk that the price could go up.


2 days ago - Wednesday 2/24/21 - 11:35:56 AM EST (GMT-5)
This is not the first time that wholesale rates went well above what is typical, and happens all over the US, not just in Texas. This is just the first time that the end users ended up bearing the cost directly rather than the power companies.

https://www.eia.gov/electricity/who...

Take a look at some of the historical data on wholesale rates. As an example, in New England, rates ranged from a high of $105/MWh to a low of $26/MWh in December 2020. In the Northwest US, August 2020 saw a high of $235/MWh and a low of $13.50/MWh.

2 days ago - Wednesday 2/24/21 - 11:59:24 AM EST (GMT-5)
Another example in Northwest US from March of 2019. Started the month at $1000/MWh before hitting a low of $19/MWh near the end of the month.

Was this price gouging, or normal variation due to supply and demand and the use of more expensive methods of power generation to meet demand?

2 days ago - Wednesday 2/24/21 - 1:12:14 PM EST (GMT-5)
Not a slug Sheady, a sealion.
2 days ago - Wednesday 2/24/21 - 3:34:54 PM EST (GMT-5)
On Wednesday 2/24/21 - 11:59:24 AM CowDung wrote:
Was this price gouging, or normal variation due to supply and demand and the use of more expensive methods of power generation to meet demand?


Their prices will now continue to be a little higher because they have to pay for beefing up their service to prepare for the next time this happens.

And people can also buy power generators, solar panels, fireplaces, etc that is if they want to continue living where they are.

2 days ago - Wednesday 2/24/21 - 4:08:37 PM EST (GMT-5)
Yes, that is certainly a viable solution for all those renters who don't have hundreds of dollars to spare.
2 days ago - Wednesday 2/24/21 - 4:24:49 PM EST (GMT-5)
On Wednesday 2/24/21 - 4:08:37 PM birdsong4j wrote:
Yes, that is certainly a viable solution for all those renters who don't have hundreds of dollars to spare.


Why just renters? Do you think homeowners are a different class of people that have more money to spare than 'renters'?

I would think it be more about a renter's inability to install things like solar panels or fireplaces than about 'having hundreds of dollars to spare'.
2 days ago - Wednesday 2/24/21 - 4:51:29 PM EST (GMT-5)
On Wednesday 2/24/21 - 11:59:24 AM CowDung wrote:
Was this price gouging, or normal variation due to supply and demand and the use of more expensive methods of power generation to meet demand?
On Wednesday 2/24/21 - 3:34:54 PM Noldor wrote:
Their prices will now continue to be a little higher because they have to pay for beefing up their service to prepare for the next time this happens. And people can also buy power generators, solar panels, fireplaces, etc that is if they want to continue living where they are.


The example I gave was the wholesale costs for a power utility in the NW US, not Texas. I don't know what event or events caused the spike in energy cost- - I was posting it as an example of the volatility in wholesale energy prices in non-Texas markets.


1 day ago - Thursday 2/25/21 - 3:30:21 AM EST (GMT-5)
You were exercising your ass.
1 day ago - Thursday 2/25/21 - 8:52:26 PM EST (GMT-5)
Some people were being charged so much that maybe had power for 3 hours. It's drating stupid.
20 hrs ago - Friday 2/26/21 - 1:41:26 AM EST (GMT-5)
The high prices existed because there was a market was from people who had contracted to pay them.

Just has supermarkets can buy produce for next to nothing because their contracts have no floor price. This has been going on in Africa since at least the Eighties.
14 hrs ago - Friday 2/26/21 - 7:58:42 AM EST (GMT-5)
On Friday 2/26/21 - 1:41:26 AM Boredofu wrote:
The high prices existed because there was a market was from people who had contracted to pay them. Just has supermarkets can buy produce for next to nothing because their contracts have no floor price. This has been going on in Africa since at least the Eighties.


Then why aren't prices high all the time? If people are contracted to pay them, there's no reason to ever charge low prices.

The fact is, the wholesale price for energy fluctuates according to the supply/demand balance. These types of price changes happen all over the US as energy suppliers have to pay more to generate the energy to meet increased demands.

14 hrs ago - Friday 2/26/21 - 8:05:41 AM EST (GMT-5)
End users pay a fixed rate for their energy where the rate represents and average cost of energy and usually includes a bit for maintaining and/or expanding the infrastructure/grid. When wholesale prices rise, the power company typically loses money because they pay the higher cost while collecting the same rate from the customers.

In Texas, the end user can choose to pay wholesale rates instead of the fixed rate, which can save them thousands of dollars each year. They found out that it can also cost them thousands of dollars more when energy prices spike due to high demand.
14 hrs ago - Friday 2/26/21 - 8:11:30 AM EST (GMT-5)
On Friday 2/26/21 - 1:41:26 AM Boredofu wrote:
The high prices existed because there was a market was from people who had contracted to pay them. Just has supermarkets can buy produce for next to nothing because their contracts have no floor price. This has been going on in Africa since at least the Eighties.
On Friday 2/26/21 - 7:58:42 AM CowDung wrote:
Then why aren't prices high all the time? If people are contracted to pay them, there's no reason to ever charge low prices. The fact is, the wholesale price for energy fluctuates according to the supply/demand balance. These types of price changes happen all over the US as energy suppliers have to pay more to generate the energy to meet increased demands.


Don't be so obtuse or people won't talk to you.
13 hrs ago - Friday 2/26/21 - 8:29:19 AM EST (GMT-5)
On Friday 2/26/21 - 8:05:41 AM CowDung wrote:Yak yak yak fart fart fart

You've probably repeated that same thing at least 6 times now. Anyone want to swap a $16,000 Kilowatt of electricity for a tulip bulb? Can you demonstrate that anyone in the entire energy market consciously paid the kind of prices being discussed? Someone created a computer program to offer those prices to the market and at the same time someone wrote a program to accept them. Even you wouldn't sit in your cubicle all day monitoring the price of electivity and changing your supplier moment by moment. People were sold snake oil by the same kind of people who sold growing coffee to the Ethiopians. Then the price of coffee collapsed due to the huge supply and the price of Wheat went sky high because everyone was growing coffee assured by the profits promised by the snake oil salesmen.
13 hrs ago - Friday 2/26/21 - 8:33:24 AM EST (GMT-5)
Millions starved, Starbucks and co got rich and CD declares, that's just business. Because he wants to project this image of himself as a top drawer industrial Jack-ass.

You are just a fart on the internet.
9 hrs ago - Friday 2/26/21 - 12:46:43 PM EST (GMT-5)
I've repeated it 6 times now because you seem to still not understand how the system works.

I have demonstrated that the kind of prices being discussed are being paid. I posted links showing the historical wholesale prices for energy all over the US- - they can vary quite a bit within a few days time. This variance isn't at all unique to Texas. These are the prices being paid- - but usually not directly by the end user, or by Texans that choose to pay on the fixed rate plan.

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