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Trump VI: Return Of The Trump

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5 months ago - Monday 12/24/18 - 5:51:35 PM EST (GMT-5)
I am confident that Noldor's "busier places" and CD's "few places" don't add up to 100%

CD did indeed charge into a conversation between myself and Noldo and then admitted that he was unable to quantfy what Noldor was suggesting by "the busier places" As such to suggest that there would only be a few places not covered by the wall was mindless crap left behind by a Rhino that charged before it could poo.

If the "few places left" were insignificant, then the cost saving would also be insignificant.Thus rendering Noldor's argument invalid. But as CD admitted he was unable to quantify length of wall versus area to be patrolled it's clear he is acting in the same old unsubstantiated bullsh*t way and interrupting the conversation to batter the forum with his own special brand of empty headed bollocks.
5 months ago - Monday 12/24/18 - 5:56:52 PM EST (GMT-5)
Maybe Noldor would like the chance to speak for himself and share what proportion of the border might be protected by a wall and therefore what kind of saving might be made, assuming the remaining places could be effectively patrolled by border agents. What were you thinking Noldor.

30% wall 70% patrols or 70% wall 30% patrols. Would "a few places" accurately describe where a wall wouldn't be built or where it would be built?
5 months ago - Monday 12/24/18 - 6:08:41 PM EST (GMT-5)
I basically agreed with your comment that the flow would go to the places where there wasn't a wall. I didn't see that as being a bad thing as those areas can be patrolled like they currently do in places where there is no border wall.

The quantifying of exactly how much would be wall is beside the point.
5 months ago - Monday 12/24/18 - 6:12:09 PM EST (GMT-5)
Is this how you guys really want to spend Christmas Eve?
5 months ago - Monday 12/24/18 - 7:04:25 PM EST (GMT-5)
CD was dismissive by suggesting there would be "a few places"left thereby imposing his opinion over and above that of the person who first raised the subject. overbearing, self opinionated, boring, Jackass. He now tries to plead that his use of the words "a few places" is besides the point.... but that was the point he chose to make.How much money could be saved by building less wall was Noldor's point. CD's point was to undermine that by inferring that much wall would still be built with a few places left. It would be much better if CD's didn't interrupt conversations to impose his own interpretation of other people's viewpoint. But I don't expect that is going to happen any time soon. He will likely still be but, but. butting over this well into New Year. What are the chances?
5 months ago - Monday 12/24/18 - 7:49:37 PM EST (GMT-5)
It's not impossible to build a wall along the entire length of the border, but it's not necessary. A big chunk of the border is desert. Hardly anyone goes through that way. Many immigrants die trying to cross through the desert.
5 months ago - Monday 12/24/18 - 7:50:06 PM EST (GMT-5)
On Monday 12/24/18 - 6:12:09 PM Rag_Doll_ wrote:
Is this how you guys really want to spend Christmas Eve?

I guess
5 months ago - Monday 12/24/18 - 8:08:02 PM EST (GMT-5)
So a big chunk would be more than a few places then.

more than 50% perhaps?
5 months ago - Monday 12/24/18 - 8:10:05 PM EST (GMT-5)
On Monday 12/24/18 - 5:10:36 PM Noldor wrote:
Ok, let's say the number is accurate. Let me ask you for some estimates. What number of American soldier deaths is acceptable to you to continue fighting Isis? How many years should we continue fighting Isis? What is your estimation of how dangerous Isis in Syria is to America?

a) The number it takes to make sure ISIS is really defeated/does not destabilize the region anymore/does not recruit new suicide bombers that threaten any western country including the US.
b) As long as it takes to achieve a)
c) Very, on a geo-political scale.
5 months ago - Monday 12/24/18 - 8:10:15 PM EST (GMT-5)
Now, would you please answer a couple of questions yourself?
a) Do you have any idea why most experts in the field - including American experts like your former SoD - think it's a bad decision to leave?
b) What would your answer to your own questions be?
c) Will you stick to your opinion the next time your President sends troops anywhere outside the country although the US were not directly attacked?
5 months ago - Monday 12/24/18 - 8:21:03 PM EST (GMT-5)
On Monday 12/24/18 - 8:08:02 PM Boredofu wrote:
So a big chunk would be more than a few places then. more than 50% perhaps?


I don't have the numbers. How much of a wall do you think we need?
5 months ago - Monday 12/24/18 - 8:26:31 PM EST (GMT-5)
On Monday 12/24/18 - 8:10:15 PM Matthias wrote:
Now, would you please answer a couple of questions yourself? a) Do you have any idea why most experts in the field - including American experts like your former SoD - think it's a bad decision to leave? b) What would your answer to your own questions be? c) Will you stick to your opinion the next time your President sends troops anywhere outside the country although the US were not directly attacked?


a) They worry that Isis will grow and influence the entire country and will team up with Iran for World Domination. They live on paranoia.

b) - I don't want American blood spilt on a war that I feel has little to do with American security. I don't think Isis is that big a threat to the USA. We will never completely be free of radical Islamists like Isis. We would have to keep fighting them forever.
5 months ago - Monday 12/24/18 - 8:29:36 PM EST (GMT-5)
c) We do have some wars we are obligated to fight through treaties like NATO. Other than that, there are bad guys around the world in every country. Should we send our troops everywhere all the time? We would go bankrupt. Not only that, I wouldn't want my son dying in a war that has little to nothing to do with American security.
5 months ago - Monday 12/24/18 - 8:33:24 PM EST (GMT-5)
If some day Isis launches a major attack on American soil, we can deal with it then.

Also, there are other ways of dealing with Isis in Syria (or bad guys in any other country) other than putting troops on the ground. We can support the good guys with money, supplies, weapons, military advice, etc.
5 months ago - Monday 12/24/18 - 8:54:08 PM EST (GMT-5)
On Monday 12/24/18 - 8:08:02 PM Boredofu wrote:
So a big chunk would be more than a few places then. more than 50% perhaps?
On Monday 12/24/18 - 8:21:03 PM Noldor wrote:
I don't have the numbers. How much of a wall do you think we need?
Enough for people not to just walk around like Rommel in France (He did have a tank though) One thing does raise a question. If patrols can stop all the people from the busy places crossing somewhere else,why they can't they stop them in the busy places instead of building a wall?. You know the places the patrols already know about. It seems disingenuous to force them to look for a new crossing point and then try to find out where it is.
5 months ago - Monday 12/24/18 - 10:48:32 PM EST (GMT-5)
On Monday 12/24/18 - 7:04:25 PM Boredofu wrote:
CD was dismissive by suggesting there would be "a few places"left thereby imposing his opinion over and above that of the person who first raised the subject. ... but that was the point he chose to make.How much money could be saved by building less wall was Noldor's point. CD's point was to undermine that by inferring that much wall would still be built with a few places left. It would be much better if CD's didn't interrupt conversations to impose his own interpretation of other people's viewpoint. But I don't expect that is going to happen any time soon. He will likely still be but, but. butting over this well into New Year. What are the chances?


Sorry Bored, I thought this was a public forum rather than a private discussion. You can always PM if you don't like anyone else throwing in an opinion into the discussion.

5 months ago - Monday 12/24/18 - 10:48:45 PM EST (GMT-5)
Defining the 'few places' it really wasn't the point I was choosing to make. My point was that if building a wall just causes the flow of immigrants to go around, it is a good thing as the routes of the immigrants will be more predictable and more easily patrolled- - it really doesn't matter what percentage of wall and what percentage of open spots there are.
5 months ago - Monday 12/24/18 - 11:05:04 PM EST (GMT-5)
On Monday 12/24/18 - 8:54:08 PM Boredofu wrote:
One thing does raise a question. If patrols can stop all the people from the busy places crossing somewhere else, why they can't they stop them in the busy places instead of building a wall?. You know the places the patrols already know about. It seems disingenuous to force them to look for a new crossing point and then try to find out where it is.


CD is way behind on this.

5 months ago - Monday 12/24/18 - 11:12:41 PM EST (GMT-5)
As I said before, I'm OK with building the wall in places that aren't 'busy places'.

I see the wall as a labor saving tool for border patrol- - the 'busy places' will end up being the places where there isn't a wall...
5 months ago - Monday 12/24/18 - 11:41:01 PM EST (GMT-5)
Don’t the “busy places” constantly shift based on any number of things including where BP places their focus?
5 months ago - Tuesday 12/25/18 - 12:27:00 AM EST (GMT-5)
On Monday 12/24/18 - 11:41:01 PM catchall wrote:
Don’t the “busy places” constantly shift based on any number of things including where BP places their focus?


I think having a wall will help prevent that.
5 months ago - Tuesday 12/25/18 - 4:38:29 AM EST (GMT-5)
CD needs to stop "thinking"

"Having a wall" would just motivate the focus to shift somewhere else. Somewhere unknown and without a wall.
Maybe the solution to that is to pretend to have a wall. Mexicans are not likely to go all the way to these busy places if they are told there is a wall here. They would obviously head for the "few places/big chunk" without a wall. So if this diversion would be effective then all Trump has to do is Photoshop a wall and distribute the pictures to government sponsored screens in Taco Bell franchises in Mexico. Everyone will think that they know where the wall is and try to go through the "few places/big gaps". They could put the pictures in KFC too, that way they won't be accused of targeting Hispanics.
5 months ago - Tuesday 12/25/18 - 7:40:36 AM EST (GMT-5)
Even more so, all you need is a freaking tunnel and you've circumvented the utility of the wall. And they literally already have those. Plus, there's lots of trade between Mexico and the US, and people, like drugs, come through those lanes all the time by the truckload and nobody has the resources to monitor all that.
4 months ago - Tuesday 12/25/18 - 11:50:28 AM EST (GMT-5)
Existing border walls have also be devastating to endangered animal populations in that area, including wolves, jaguars, ocelots, etc.

It has also been bad for the environment. For example, flooding on parts of the border have been exacerbated when flood waters hit the wall.

It’s a massively expensive project that will continue to be expensive for years. It will do little to actually curb illegal immigration or smuggling because of tunnels, ladders, ropes, drones, trebuchets, etc., all of which are considerably less expense than a massive wall/vanity project. It’s terrible for the environment. In order to be completed American will have their lands seized by the government. Parts of the US will have to be annexed to the other side of the wall.

It’s a stupid solution thought up by an ego maniac and supported by simple-minded idiots.
4 months ago - Tuesday 12/25/18 - 1:16:45 PM EST (GMT-5)
On Tuesday 12/25/18 - 4:38:29 AM Boredofu wrote:
CD needs to stop "thinking" "Having a wall" would just motivate the focus to shift somewhere else. Somewhere unknown and without a wall.


Yes, that is exactly what I am saying, although it's not so much unknown when the presence of a wall eliminates some of the possibilities.


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