A quote that is attributed to Labour Prime Minster Harold Wilson, although no one can remember when he actually said it. Things did move quickly for Wilson. Appointed Leader of... Who's Online | Find Members | Private Messages
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A week is a long time in politics

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6 days ago - Wednesday 12/5/18 - 1:49:09 PM EST (GMT-5)
A quote that is attributed to Labour Prime Minster Harold Wilson, although no one can remember when he actually said it. Things did move quickly for Wilson. Appointed Leader of his Party in 1963 following the sudden death of Hugh Gaskill he became Prime Minister just a year later with a slim majority of 4 following, a sex scandal in the Conservative Party involving the Minister of War, a Russian Spy and a 16 year old lover of the two of them.


This year, this week, the scandal is more political and the majority is even slimmer. In fact right now there isn't one but in 7 days Prime Minister Theresa May must face a commons vote on her plans to leave the EU.

6 days ago - Wednesday 12/5/18 - 1:49:29 PM EST (GMT-5)
Yesterday she suffered a series of setbacks to her endeavour.

Firstly the government was censured for failing to reveal the full details of the legal advice they had received on her Brexit deal, claiming that "it was not in the national interest"

Losing the vote 311 - 293 the house found the government's ministers in contempt of Parliament for the first time in History.


The House then proposed that should the vote go against the Government next Tuesday, there should be a debate about any proposed amendments in advance rather than just another vote on an amended bill.

In the House of Lords 3 votes went against the Government's proposals that might change the present EU laws on fundamental rights after "regaining our sovereignty" .
6 days ago - Wednesday 12/5/18 - 2:01:02 PM EST (GMT-5)
Today the details that were excluded from her summary and buried in the full text revealed that should the UK agree to a compromise over the Border with the Republic of Ireland (the so called backstop), then the UK would not be able to unilaterally withdraw from the arrangement, essentially creating a customs border between Britain and Northern Ireland that would remain indefinitely until a future agreement was reached.


May was further undermined when legal advice from the EU suggested that even at this stage the UK could decide to cancel their plans to leave the EU in March.

At the moment her best chance of success is the fear that a defeat will see Brexit cancelled completely.
6 days ago - Wednesday 12/5/18 - 4:13:46 PM EST (GMT-5)
The people voted in favor of Brexit. Does that mean nothing?
6 days ago - Wednesday 12/5/18 - 4:17:30 PM EST (GMT-5)
In Australia a week can mean a having had 3 different prime ministers.

Can the Queen step in and just wipe parliament and force and election the way the govoner general can on here behalf here?
6 days ago - Wednesday 12/5/18 - 4:49:26 PM EST (GMT-5)
On Wednesday 12/5/18 - 4:13:46 PM Noldor wrote:
The people voted in favor of Brexit. Does that mean nothing?

Obviously it means quite a bit, since they're still trying to figure out an un-f*cked way to do it even though that's almost definitely going to be impossible.
6 days ago - Wednesday 12/5/18 - 5:57:07 PM EST (GMT-5)
is there a way to go around the current government completely and force a new vote on whether to leave the EU or not?
6 days ago - Wednesday 12/5/18 - 6:05:51 PM EST (GMT-5)
On Wednesday 12/5/18 - 4:13:46 PM Noldor wrote:
51,9 % of the people voted in favor of Brexit. Does that mean nothing?

Yes, it means that about half of the people thought it was a good idea at the time ...
6 days ago - Wednesday 12/5/18 - 6:24:20 PM EST (GMT-5)
On Wednesday 12/5/18 - 5:57:07 PM Disappears wrote:
is there a way to go around the current government completely and force a new vote on whether to leave the EU or not?


I don't think so - the proposal for another referendum would have to be put forward by the government and have the majority of MPs support it. Theresa May has said it won't happen. She might get ousted by her own party if they don't make progress, but I'm not sure her replacement would push for it (successfully) either. Even if they did, I wouldn't bet on the outcome of another referendum being different tbh (it'd probably be quite close again).

It's also been suggested that a general election could be called through an MP vote, which might have more traction than another referendum, but it's not obvious what the outcome of that would be either really.
6 days ago - Wednesday 12/5/18 - 6:28:34 PM EST (GMT-5)
Otherwise I think it's looking at:
- leaving with no deal
- modifying the deal (the EU has said this proposal is final)
- extend the negotiating period

I don't expect the ultimate outcome to be that we end up remaining, personally.
6 days ago - Wednesday 12/5/18 - 7:03:42 PM EST (GMT-5)
On Wednesday 12/5/18 - 4:13:46 PM Noldor wrote:
51,9 % of the people voted in favor of Brexit. Does that mean nothing?
On Wednesday 12/5/18 - 6:05:51 PM Matthias wrote:
Yes, it means that about half of the people thought it was a good idea at the time ...

51.9% is a majority.
6 days ago - Wednesday 12/5/18 - 7:05:11 PM EST (GMT-5)
Would you like to make a rule that you must win by 60%?
6 days ago - Wednesday 12/5/18 - 7:08:05 PM EST (GMT-5)
Also, I guess you are implying that the voters have changed their minds. Would you like to make a new rule that says every election must done all over again in six months, just in case people change their minds?
6 days ago - Wednesday 12/5/18 - 7:16:54 PM EST (GMT-5)
On Wednesday 12/5/18 - 7:08:05 PM Noldor wrote:
Also, I guess you are implying that the voters have changed their minds. Would you like to make a new rule that says every election must done all over again in six months, just in case people change their minds?

It would be nice if, after a huge world-changing resolution was passed and it was determined that one side literally lied constantly to get votes, there could be some sort of remedy for that.
6 days ago - Wednesday 12/5/18 - 7:28:07 PM EST (GMT-5)
Elections happen all the time. If enough people are interested in reversing something, I’m sure they could get it on the ballot for the next time.
6 days ago - Wednesday 12/5/18 - 9:08:05 PM EST (GMT-5)
On Wednesday 12/5/18 - 7:28:07 PM Noldor wrote:
Elections happen all the time. If enough people are interested in reversing something, I’m sure they could get it on the ballot for the next time.

I don't think you quite understand how the whole brexit thing works.
6 days ago - Wednesday 12/5/18 - 9:27:03 PM EST (GMT-5)
That’s why I asked. The people voted to exit the EU. Was that just a suggestion?
6 days ago - Wednesday 12/5/18 - 10:02:46 PM EST (GMT-5)
The thing is they voted for the idea of brexit but not the specifics of what it would look like. It's like they voted to have breakfast for dinner but then find out that the breakfast has no eggs.
6 days ago - Wednesday 12/5/18 - 10:05:17 PM EST (GMT-5)
Not only does the breakfast have no eggs, the Breakfast For Dinner Coalition constantly ran ads about how having breakfast for dinner was more financially sound than having spaghetti. But it turned out that after people voted for breakfast, it was actually going to cost at least as much as spaghetti (probably more), the BfDC knew that all along, AND they all announced after the vote was held that they aren't planning to help cook or wash up.
6 days ago - Wednesday 12/5/18 - 10:20:09 PM EST (GMT-5)
On Wednesday 12/5/18 - 6:28:34 PM Floor Demon wrote:
Otherwise I think it's looking at: - leaving with no deal - modifying the deal (the EU has said this proposal is final) - extend the negotiating period I don't expect the ultimate outcome to be that we end up remaining, personally.

what about the people bringing it to the EU court?
6 days ago - Thursday 12/6/18 - 2:03:36 AM EST (GMT-5)
On Wednesday 12/5/18 - 9:27:03 PM Noldor wrote:
That’s why I asked. The people voted to exit the EU. Was that just a suggestion?


We don't have a populist system of government.


We have a parliamentary democracy. The popular vote was to leave the EU but it is up to the Government to ensure that it is done legally and in the best interests of the country. Imagine if the majority of people in the USA voted to ban guns.

The referendum was not binding nor did it specify any conditions under which the proposal would be carried out.


A further complication was that May called an election in order to increase support for her plans and she actually lost her majority. That's like Trump calling a special midterm election to back funding for his wall and losing control of the house.

6 days ago - Thursday 12/6/18 - 2:13:10 AM EST (GMT-5)
The Government only had a majority through working with the support of the Democratic Unionist Party, who have just 10 seats.


The DUP have withdrawn their support over the issue of the customs border between Northern Ireland and The Republic. May made a deal where there would be no border on the Irish mainland but failed to disclose that instead Northern Ireland would be subject to a customs border with the rest of the UK. That's like saying we are not going to close the border with Mexico but seal off Texas and Arizona.
6 days ago - Thursday 12/6/18 - 2:36:03 AM EST (GMT-5)
Brexit is really weird to me. Seems like the Brits dont actually want it, the politicians that drummed it up have all quit and the EU is playing chicken saying "you fxcks wanted this, now make it work".

I'd love an ELI5 because I feel it's much more than just "a slim majority wanted it so why isnt it happening???"
6 days ago - Thursday 12/6/18 - 3:37:14 AM EST (GMT-5)
To start with the issue was taking votes from the Conservative party and going to the more right wing UKIP who were campaigning on a single issue, leaving the EU. The Conservative leader made an election promise to have a referendum and tempted a lot of support back from UKIP, Enough to win the election. He wasn't a supporter of Brexit he just wanted to remove the issue so that all the people who were voting for UKIP would come back and vote for him. The problem was, once the referendum was called he couldn't very well campaign against leaving as that would alienate the very people he was trying to lure back. If the opposition campaigned strongly against leaving then this would have the desired effect of attracting more votes for the Conservatives. So the remain campaign was fairly half-assed and neither major party really considered that the vote might be to leave.
6 days ago - Thursday 12/6/18 - 4:47:26 AM EST (GMT-5)
On Wednesday 12/5/18 - 10:20:09 PM Abzurd wrote:
what about the people bringing it to the EU court?


There has been a group of MPs/lawyers that have been campaigning for the EU court to clarify whether the UK can call the whole thing off (i.e. without requiring the permission of other EU members). They were advised by a senior official that they could. I think the logic was that another referendum or a general election could be called when we knew what the deal was going to be, and the public could vote on whether they wanted that specifically, or to remain. But that just leads back to the government or MPs calling for one of those things to happen.

It's also worth bearing in mind that the current stance of our main two parties is to respect the previous referendum results, which is why I don't think the platforms and outcome of another general election are obvious.

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