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Mass shooting at California nightclub

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12 days ago - Thursday 11/8/18 - 4:06:42 AM EST (GMT-5)
12 days ago - Thursday 11/8/18 - 7:26:47 AM EST (GMT-5)
12 days ago - Thursday 11/8/18 - 7:48:00 AM EST (GMT-5)
I know that last post comes across as flippant, but seriously, I'm so sick of reading about yet another massacre in the US and then endless days of Americans trying to puzzle out how such a thing could happen, never once actually dealing with the source of the problem.
12 days ago - Thursday 11/8/18 - 8:22:03 AM EST (GMT-5)
13 dead including the shooter and a police officer.

This was just a bunch of college kids trying to enjoy a night out.
I feel sick.
12 days ago - Thursday 11/8/18 - 9:47:36 AM EST (GMT-5)
On Thursday 11/8/18 - 7:48:00 AM Guilty_Spark wrote:
I know that last post comes across as flippant, but seriously, I'm so sick of reading about yet another massacre in the US and then endless days of Americans trying to puzzle out how such a thing could happen, never once actually dealing with the source of the problem.


Funny because we're sick of reading your commentary on it. Seriously, there are a whole lot of things we can and cannot do legally that differ from your country quite a bit. Beyond that there's a matter of practicality because we already have a whole lot of guns here. Tons of them. Also there's a vast array of cultural differences that ensure we're not the same as you, such as our ability to keep the union together and separate from England. So seriously, were twice as tired of hearing it as you are saying it, so just stop.
12 days ago - Thursday 11/8/18 - 10:25:15 AM EST (GMT-5)
"Authorities identified the suspected shooter as 28-year-old Ian David Long, who is a veteran of the United States Marine Corps, according to sheriff's officials. They added that they believe Long committed suicide before officials arrived at the scene."

But elsewhere in the story it mentions a sheriff getting killed too. Confusing.
12 days ago - Thursday 11/8/18 - 11:01:02 AM EST (GMT-5)
On Thursday 11/8/18 - 7:48:00 AM Guilty_Spark wrote:
I know that last post comes across as flippant, but seriously, I'm so sick of reading about yet another massacre in the US and then endless days of Americans trying to puzzle out how such a thing could happen, never once actually dealing with the source of the problem.

It's not that simple. You're smart and educated enough to know it. 60% of Americans want a change that no one poliitically can make happen right now.
12 days ago - Thursday 11/8/18 - 11:03:06 AM EST (GMT-5)
He was a Sheriff's Sergeant, it said.

They identified the gunman as a 29-year-old Marine veteran. They did a mental health check because of a call to his home this spring, but the MH professionals determined that they couldn't place him on 5150 hold (it's very difficult to involuntarily commit someone).
12 days ago - Thursday 11/8/18 - 12:18:55 PM EST (GMT-5)
On Thursday 11/8/18 - 11:01:02 AM Abzurd wrote:
It's not that simple. You're smart and educated enough to know it. 60% of Americans want a change that no one poliitically can make happen right now.


The problem is the second amendment. It was adopted in the 18th century and clearly is no longer fit for purpose. People keep saying how complicated the issue is, but it's really not. Tighter gun control, fewer gun related deaths. It's THAT simple.
12 days ago - Thursday 11/8/18 - 12:28:09 PM EST (GMT-5)
It was a hand gun in a state with some of the strictest gun control laws...let’s blame the 2nd Amendment anyway.

11 days ago - Thursday 11/8/18 - 2:26:20 PM EST (GMT-5)
Yes, let's.

He legally bought a lethal weapon and used it to shoot people. He was able to do this thanks to the second amendment.

It really IS this simple.
11 days ago - Thursday 11/8/18 - 3:51:59 PM EST (GMT-5)
OK, say the second amendment is gone tomorrow.

How do you propose that all guns in existence be removed from their owners?

It really isn't that simple.
11 days ago - Thursday 11/8/18 - 3:57:46 PM EST (GMT-5)
On Thursday 11/8/18 - 12:28:09 PM theBSR wrote:
It was a hand gun in a state with some of the strictest gun control laws...let’s blame the 2nd Amendment anyway.


as a gun owner, i've had to jump through a lot of hoops in this state. even if the main thing i do with guns (other than self-defense) is shoot them at a practice range.
11 days ago - Thursday 11/8/18 - 4:08:46 PM EST (GMT-5)
On Thursday 11/8/18 - 3:51:59 PM CowDung wrote:
OK, say the second amendment is gone tomorrow. How do you propose that all guns in existence be removed from their owners? It really isn't that simple.


Why is this always the response to calls for gun control? What logic tells you that unless you can expect immediate results, do nothing to address an issue?

It’s perfectly possible to pass gun control laws (we don’t even have to abolish the 2nd Amendment) with an expectation that the effects of the law won’t be seen immediately. We don’t have to raid homes & confiscate guns (another argument anti-gun control advocates like to make).

We could make it illegal to buy/sell x,y, and z guns. We can implement gun buyback programs.

Once such legislation went into effect, it would immediately stop sales of new/used guns covered by the law or provide law
11 days ago - Thursday 11/8/18 - 4:13:33 PM EST (GMT-5)
enforcement with a tool to combat sales.

Over time, guns that were purchased before that law went into effect would decrease without any intervention (e.g. they would break, owners would get rid of guns on their own, etc.).

People would also see that gun control didn’t create the apocalyptic hellscape the NRA told them it would, so people might be more willing to participate in gun buyback programs.

Stop setting up arbitrary, bullsh*t metrics to judge the effectiveness of legislation (e.g. arguing that the effect must be immediate for legislation to be hedged effective).
11 days ago - Thursday 11/8/18 - 4:25:21 PM EST (GMT-5)
On Thursday 11/8/18 - 4:08:46 PM Courtbebe wrote:
Why is this always the response to calls for gun control? What logic tells you that unless you can expect immediate results, do nothing to address an issue? It’s perfectly possible to pass gun control laws (we don’t even have to abolish the 2nd Amendment) with an expectation that the effects of the law won’t be seen immediately. We don’t have to raid homes & confiscate guns (another argument anti-gun control advocates like to make). We could make it illegal to buy/sell x,y, and z guns. We can implement gun buyback programs. Once such legislation went into effect, it would immediately stop sales of new/used guns covered by the law or provide law


GS was speaking specifically in terms of the 2nd Amendment, so that's what my response was based on.

11 days ago - Thursday 11/8/18 - 4:25:40 PM EST (GMT-5)
3% own 50% of guns
And 1% own 90% of the money.
Kind of sounds like a recipe for disaster.
11 days ago - Thursday 11/8/18 - 7:28:37 PM EST (GMT-5)
On Thursday 11/8/18 - 12:18:55 PM Guilty_Spark wrote:
The problem is the second amendment. It was adopted in the 18th century and clearly is no longer fit for purpose. People keep saying how complicated the issue is, but it's really not. Tighter gun control, fewer gun related deaths. It's THAT simple.


No, it's not. It's also the 4th Amendment, the 5th Ammendnent, and legal precedents too numerous to mention individually which grant has determined how we drywall with property that was previously legal but now is not, it's got to do with inheritance, and how we handle ownership and possession. And it all ties together in a specific way that is probably slightly different than the way you do it but still probably different enough to make what you did possible for you, but for us a total nightmare.
11 days ago - Thursday 11/8/18 - 8:48:20 PM EST (GMT-5)
dey tok errr meleta
11 days ago - Friday 11/9/18 - 12:49:07 AM EST (GMT-5)
Is it crazy for me to feel paranoid that it seems like every time I post on this site there seems to be an uptick in mass shootings?
11 days ago - Friday 11/9/18 - 1:58:53 AM EST (GMT-5)
On Friday 11/9/18 - 12:49:07 AM Wolf_In_Jar wrote:
Is it crazy for me to feel paranoid that it seems like every time I post on this site there seems to be an uptick in mass shootings?


Yes.
11 days ago - Friday 11/9/18 - 6:00:17 AM EST (GMT-5)
11 days ago - Friday 11/9/18 - 9:35:41 AM EST (GMT-5)
Its kinda like people just go crazy sometimes and it gets real tragic real fast if they have a gun at the ready
11 days ago - Friday 11/9/18 - 9:46:27 AM EST (GMT-5)
That sounds flippant but its like this right

This is one of those good guys with a gun everybody salivates over. He beat the strictest gun control this country has to offer, and still massacred folks.

Outside of banning guns outright, this wouldve still happened.

Thats not good. Im not saying this is a good result. Im not even particularly against some strict ass gun control now after being in australia and seeing their rednecks still getting on with their huntings and everything. Its a big world with a lot of ideas.

Looking to what places like canada or australia have done and trying to adapt it is probably way better than the free for all clusterf*ck weve earned. I mean just from a lives not lost standpoint.
10 days ago - Friday 11/9/18 - 6:08:12 PM EST (GMT-5)
The problem with applying Australia to here is the 4th Amendment. We can't do a door to door search and seizure legally, and even if we did, the body count would be extreme because our militia goons would lose their Goddamn minds and come out shooting. The only peaceful way of dealing with the situation is to grandfather in all the old stuff which means millions up on millions of guns just still out there mostly being owned by old people who will die and pass those guns on to their children and their children's children and, etc. It's just not a solution.

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