[link] House Republicans successfully passed their wide-ranging tax plan Thursday, moving the party one step closer to reshaping the tax code by year’s end. The proposal, called the Tax Cuts... Who's Online | Find Members | Private Messages
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House passes tax reform bill

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28 days ago - Thursday 11/16/17 - 6:16:20 PM EST (GMT-5)
http://abcnews.go.com/Politics/hous...

House Republicans successfully passed their wide-ranging tax plan Thursday, moving the party one step closer to reshaping the tax code by year’s end.

The proposal, called the Tax Cuts and Jobs Act, would add $1.4 trillion to the federal deficit over the next 10 years, while decreasing the number of tax brackets and deductions, and slashing the corporate tax rate to 20 percent, if it eventually becomes law.

28 days ago - Thursday 11/16/17 - 6:21:34 PM EST (GMT-5)

28 days ago - Thursday 11/16/17 - 6:26:19 PM EST (GMT-5)
It is worth a mention that the corporate tax cuts are permanent under this plan, and the so-called "middle class tax cuts" (which don't even cut taxes for all middle class households) expire in 10 years.

There are also a ton of deductions that are eliminated.

Republicans really, really, really wanted to cut the corporate tax rate, which is an expensive thing to do. So they have to pay for it by screwing normal people.
28 days ago - Thursday 11/16/17 - 6:31:29 PM EST (GMT-5)
Oh yeah, and the estate tax. They really wanted to get rid of that, too, because it heavily benefits most of their big donors (the estate tax only applies to estates worth over ~$5 million for single people, ~$11 million for couples).
The current occupant of the white house obviously benefits quite a bit from that, as well.
28 days ago - Thursday 11/16/17 - 6:42:44 PM EST (GMT-5)
"The JCT also estimated Thursday that the Senate bill would raise the average tax rate for those making $10,000 to $30,000 in 2021 and on all income groups making under $75,000 in 2027."
(JCT == Joint Committee on Taxation, which is made up of members of the Senate Finance and House Ways & Means Committees - bipartisan by design).

28 days ago - Thursday 11/16/17 - 7:08:21 PM EST (GMT-5)
Haven't the lefties been claiming that no corporations even paid taxes?

28 days ago - Friday 11/17/17 - 12:30:24 AM EST (GMT-5)
On Thursday 11/16/17 - 7:08:21 PM CowDung wrote:
Haven't the lefties been claiming that no corporations even paid taxes?


Wait what? Where's evidence of an overwhelming amount of people from the "left" saying this? And anyway what point is trying to be made by saying this?

Yes I follow the US budget not on an in depth level but I have an interest in economic policy so this is my jam
28 days ago - Friday 11/17/17 - 12:31:31 AM EST (GMT-5)
The only thing I can think of is that corporations put their money in tax havens and therefore pay a ridiculously low amount of tax, which is not a disputed fact. Every corporation is naturally incentives to practise tax avoidance
28 days ago - Friday 11/17/17 - 12:31:44 AM EST (GMT-5)
Incentivised*
28 days ago - Friday 11/17/17 - 12:37:57 AM EST (GMT-5)
But if anyone cares to take the time, I'm confused how the drat your politics works

In my mind I thought things go from the house and then to the senate. So a bill is proposed and passed by the house and then moves to the senate where it is either approved or denied. Is this wrong?

If the senate doesn't approve this tax plan is it dead in the water?

Also did they really get rid of the estate tax? That seems insane.
28 days ago - Friday 11/17/17 - 12:38:39 AM EST (GMT-5)
I guess I should watch that cartoon with the bill and that catchy song
28 days ago - Friday 11/17/17 - 12:47:58 AM EST (GMT-5)
On Friday 11/17/17 - 12:37:57 AM spacepeanut wrote:
In my mind I thought things go from the house and then to the senate. So a bill is proposed and passed by the house and then moves to the senate where it is either approved or denied. Is this wrong? If the senate doesn't approve this tax plan is it dead in the water? Also did they really get rid of the estate tax?

The only step you're missing in the broad strokes is that the senate will pass their own version of this bill (their working version as of now has some significant differences). Then the two will go to conference committee where they'll hammer out the differences and get to a version that they believe both chambers will pass. So the senate doesn't have to pass exactly this version.
And yes, they really did get rid of the estate tax. They also kept stepped-up basis. Those two combined are...crazy.
28 days ago - Friday 11/17/17 - 12:50:35 AM EST (GMT-5)
On Friday 11/17/17 - 12:31:31 AM spacepeanut wrote:
The only thing I can think of is that corporations put their money in tax havens and therefore pay a ridiculously low amount of tax, which is not a disputed fact.

Also yes, this. Under our current system, with all the deductions, loopholes, etc., some of the largest, wealthiest corporations here pay an effective tax of zero, or very close. CowDung is purposely misrepresenting the argument as usual. Literally no one has ever argued that "no corporations pay tax," and he knows that.
28 days ago - Friday 11/17/17 - 12:51:23 AM EST (GMT-5)
Ah cool thanks for that

I can't believes there isn't more outcry about the estate taxes? Or the tax cuts?

I mean there was enough outcry about the new health care bills and they didn't get passed, I would imagine a bill that is so drastic as this would get even more opposition?
28 days ago - Friday 11/17/17 - 12:55:16 AM EST (GMT-5)
I guess what I'm saying is that given that the health care bills didn't pass because republicans don't have an overwhelming majority, surely some will disagree with such drastic changes

And why would any democrat agree to this

So what are the chances of this actually getting passed?
28 days ago - Friday 11/17/17 - 12:57:54 AM EST (GMT-5)
I mean it is so overtly favouring the wealthy it's just like seriously why would any member of the senate with integrity pass this
28 days ago - Friday 11/17/17 - 12:58:44 AM EST (GMT-5)
A few reasons for the relative lack of outcry.
1. It's hard to make people care about financial policy because it's boring.
2. Some people are either dumb enough or naive enough to believe the GOP party line that this is a tax cut for them, when in reality, it hugely disproportionately helps extremely rich people and corporations. The GOP is selling it as a "middle class tax cut" and if you can believe it, some people actually buy that line of BS.
3. For some, the hugely negative effects won't hit them for 5-10 years. Repealing ACA would have affected a lot of people's healthcare in 2018.
4. Certain people believe that lowering corp tax rates would make wages for workers go up, which helps everyone. Of course, that's not happened in the past when it's been tried, and there's no evidence it would happen now (including polls of CEOs about what they'd spend the $$ on).
28 days ago - Friday 11/17/17 - 12:59:22 AM EST (GMT-5)
I know that's assuming that there are members that HAVE integrity

But then why isn't there a huge outcry by the public that would pressure them to vote in the way the public wants them to vote?
28 days ago - Friday 11/17/17 - 1:00:11 AM EST (GMT-5)
Ah I see

Damn

That's drated up
28 days ago - Friday 11/17/17 - 1:02:28 AM EST (GMT-5)
Also, some people aren't taking it seriously yet because the senate doesn't seem too close to a version that will pass. Zero democrats will vote for this, which means they can only lose two republican senate votes. They CAN pass it with no democratic support (in both houses), but the senate margin is so slim. And maybe about to get slimmer, depending on what happens in the AL special election (this also depends on how fast they're able to bring something to the floor for a vote).
The problems in the senate are going to be similar to the ACA repeal problems: different factions having different reasons for not supporting such a broad bill. For example, several house republicans defected from this because it repealed the federal deduction for state/local taxes. That screws over CA, NY, NJ the most, and those states do have some GOP reps.
28 days ago - Friday 11/17/17 - 1:09:17 AM EST (GMT-5)
Sigh

As I like to say, politics isn't broken, people are broken.
28 days ago - Friday 11/17/17 - 1:10:02 AM EST (GMT-5)
Oh yeah, another thing this bill would do is force huge cuts to Medicare. It's not explicit in the bill, but because of PAYGO (house rule that says tax cuts and certain spending increases have to be offset by mandatory spending cuts), that's effectively what would happen. Some spending is exempt from those kinds of cuts (Veterans Admin, Social Security, and a bunch of others), which means that the ones that aren't exempt get hit harder. They would have to come up with something like $135 billion in cuts next year alone, because this bill would increase the deficit by about that ($1.5T over the next decade).

So yeah. Corporate tax cuts and gifts to wealthy heirs, on the back of healthcare for old people (among a bunch of other stuff).
28 days ago - Friday 11/17/17 - 1:13:59 AM EST (GMT-5)
Right. Thanks I appreciate you spelling it out here, pretty enlightening.

Is there anything positive about the bill at all?
28 days ago - Friday 11/17/17 - 1:24:29 AM EST (GMT-5)
Sure, if you're rich. Or if you're a corporation.

Otherwise, it's pretty f*cking odious policy as far as I can tell.
28 days ago - Friday 11/17/17 - 2:54:45 AM EST (GMT-5)
I think there is another factor at play. Many Americans are still sold on the land of oppertunity dream. They think that they are ahead of the game, and that sometime in the not too distant furture they are going to break into the richer than thou bracket. So they support all the policies that are advantagous to people like "them."

Deluded people who can't bear to think of themselves as part of the common herd.

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