[link] The Trump administration plans to allow hunters to bring trophies of elephants they killed in Zimbabwe and Zambia back to the United States, reversing a ban put in place... Who's Online | Find Members | Private Messages
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Trump admin reverses ban on importation of elephant trophies from Africa

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24 days ago - Thursday 11/16/17 - 6:12:12 PM EST (GMT-5)
http://abcnews.go.com/US/trump-admi...

The Trump administration plans to allow hunters to bring trophies of elephants they killed in Zimbabwe and Zambia back to the United States, reversing a ban put in place by the Obama administration in 2014, a U.S. Fish and Wildlife Service official confirmed for ABC News today.

24 days ago - Thursday 11/16/17 - 6:12:50 PM EST (GMT-5)
Gee, I wonder why they'd want to do that...

(spoiler for animal-lovers)



24 days ago - Thursday 11/16/17 - 6:31:16 PM EST (GMT-5)
Sickening.
24 days ago - Thursday 11/16/17 - 9:43:48 PM EST (GMT-5)
Elephants are incredibly intelligent and empathetic animals. They should not be killed for ivory or to give pathetic big game hunters an ego boost. It’s disgusting, but sadly in character, that this admin would undermine conservation efforts. I hope states step in to ban owning these “trophies.”
24 days ago - Thursday 11/16/17 - 11:00:12 PM EST (GMT-5)
From wiki: In some countries, sport hunting of the animals is legal; Botswana, Cameroon, Gabon, Mozambique, Namibia, South Africa, Tanzania, Zambia, and Zimbabwe have CITES export quotas for elephant trophies.

There is the problem.
24 days ago - Thursday 11/16/17 - 11:04:45 PM EST (GMT-5)
While that is certainly the root of the whole problem, we can't change other countries' laws. What we can do is make *our* laws less friendly to Americans who want to go to those countries and hunt elephants.
24 days ago - Thursday 11/16/17 - 11:07:49 PM EST (GMT-5)
Can a congressman attach a sh-tload of import taxes on those?

Or does it have to come from the executive branch?
24 days ago - Thursday 11/16/17 - 11:20:16 PM EST (GMT-5)
If anything, a new tax/a change to the tax would have to come from congress, and not the executive.

24 days ago - Thursday 11/16/17 - 11:21:53 PM EST (GMT-5)
That said, I'm definitely not totally clear on how the importing of these trophies works. But the Dept. of Interior (Fish & Wildlife) has a lot of authority over whether or not to issue permits. It's my understanding that since 2014, they've just declined to issue any. So an actual law is not being changed here, only the implementation of it, if that makes sense.
24 days ago - Friday 11/17/17 - 3:11:39 AM EST (GMT-5)
Elephants have no natural predators and they live for an incredibly long time.

In some countries poachers have pushed elephant numbers to an endangered level.

In others the problem is more complex. If elephants are left to breed unchecked in a restricted area they will destroy all the vegetation and turn it into a dustbowl.

I figure that the areas which allow sport hunters try to control the poachers as otherwise the elephants there would also be endangered. I imagine that the sport hunters are not allowed (on even don't want to) kill bredding age females, rather the large old bulls with imressive looking tusks. In conservation terms killing non alpha bulls only ensures there is more capacity for young calves and their mothers. It's a complicated issue when you start to mess with eco systems.
24 days ago - Friday 11/17/17 - 3:12:46 AM EST (GMT-5)
In some African wildlife reserves the numbers of major predators are maintained at a high level in order to attract more tourists. Only that means they eat up too many of their prey, leaving the reserve having to buy and release more gazelles and antelope from other reserves to prevent the lions and leopards from starving.
24 days ago - Friday 11/17/17 - 6:16:00 AM EST (GMT-5)
what a bunch of c*nts.

Bored, I get where you're coming from, but these pricks are doing it for sport. If animals need to be culled them so be it, bit you don't do it triumphantly and then take a dr*ting "trophy" home with you.

Wtf is wrong with these people.
23 days ago - Friday 11/17/17 - 9:30:29 PM EST (GMT-5)
looks like he’s gone back on this particular decision thankfully
23 days ago - Friday 11/17/17 - 9:43:11 PM EST (GMT-5)
On Friday 11/17/17 - 9:30:29 PM Disappears wrote:
looks like he’s gone back on this particular decision thankfully


Oh really?

Thank god

Why it was even a decision in the first place is proper wtf
23 days ago - Friday 11/17/17 - 10:40:32 PM EST (GMT-5)
Not sure why this is such a big deal- - the 'ban' has only been in place for a couple of years- - it isn't like he's changing some long established practice...
23 days ago - Friday 11/17/17 - 10:45:38 PM EST (GMT-5)
The ban seems like a natural process to get together with the state of the world as it is, a reversal of that is kind of going backwards
23 days ago - Friday 11/17/17 - 10:48:08 PM EST (GMT-5)
As in, the rise of these private hunting things became a problem, ban happened to stop said behaviour, behaviour still continuing and on the rise, ban then being reversed for no credible reason
23 days ago - Friday 11/17/17 - 10:49:26 PM EST (GMT-5)
Irrationality and manipulativeness is worthy of getting upset about
23 days ago - Saturday 11/18/17 - 12:15:43 AM EST (GMT-5)
If behavior was still continuing and on the rise after the ban, then it means that the ban really wasn't addressing the problem.
23 days ago - Saturday 11/18/17 - 2:41:18 AM EST (GMT-5)
I don't really have enough evidence to say whether it is or it isn't

Like i haven't looked into whether it did stop some stuff happening etc

Bearing in mind just as face value observation the US is just one country and there's still for example Europe and China who import this stuff so there are way more variables at play

Nevertheless even if it were the case that the ban was really having no effect, and that's just totally hypothetical, there is no good reason for them to reverse the ban.

By instilling the ban it is to prevent the thing, they still want to prevent the thing, well just keep the ban in place just in case it might be having some effect, because as a country we want to signal to the world that this practice is wrong
23 days ago - Saturday 11/18/17 - 2:43:46 AM EST (GMT-5)
In other words the ban is a moral position. A good one. By reversing it is saying that your moral position has changed.

If your moral position has changed on this thing, that is worthy of outrage
23 days ago - Saturday 11/18/17 - 2:45:43 AM EST (GMT-5)
my controversial opinion is that i don't think hunting is any worse than eating meat
at the end of the day you're still just killing an animal for enjoyment
i mean maybe with hunting an elephant the enjoyment you get is even greater than when you eat kfc or whatever
23 days ago - Saturday 11/18/17 - 2:52:16 AM EST (GMT-5)
It's a fair point tbh

Hmm

I mean personally I'm inclined to say I agree and that eating meat shouldn't happen at all. Personally I completely agree with all the good animals rights arguments. In practise I'm not vegetarian because meat tastes good? It's a terrible argument for me and I totally admit its irrationality but still do it anyway.
23 days ago - Saturday 11/18/17 - 2:55:03 AM EST (GMT-5)
So yeah I'm just saying I gotcha and totally see the inconsistency there
23 days ago - Saturday 11/18/17 - 4:44:06 AM EST (GMT-5)
Skyfish, I love you man, but you can dr*t off with that POV.

KFC is not an endangered species for a start, and I don't triumphantly cut the thing's head off and stick it on my wall.

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