[link] A federal grand jury in Washington, DC, on Friday approved the first charges in the investigation led by special counsel Robert Mueller, according to sources briefed on the matter.... Who's Online | Find Members | Private Messages
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First charges filed in Mueller probe

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21 days ago - Friday 10/27/17 - 9:59:44 PM EST (GMT-5)
http://www.cnn.com/2017/10/27/polit...

A federal grand jury in Washington, DC, on Friday approved the first charges in the investigation led by special counsel Robert Mueller, according to sources briefed on the matter.

The charges are still sealed under orders from a federal judge. Plans were prepared Friday for anyone charged to be taken into custody as soon as Monday, the sources said. It is unclear what the charges are.
21 days ago - Friday 10/27/17 - 10:29:45 PM EST (GMT-5)
It might not be Hillary...
21 days ago - Friday 10/27/17 - 10:42:38 PM EST (GMT-5)
I would assume Manafort. Just at a guess.
21 days ago - Saturday 10/28/17 - 4:39:26 PM EST (GMT-5)
My money is on Flynn so he has someone in the administration.

I think Manafort will come nest with more serious charges.
21 days ago - Saturday 10/28/17 - 5:17:55 PM EST (GMT-5)
On Saturday 10/28/17 - 4:39:26 PM Rik_Khaos wrote:
My money is on Flynn so he has someone in the administration.

I don't really think that will matter. It could even be a family member of someone believed to be more involved (Flynn, Jr. seems like a decent target). That's a big part of how they ultimately got the Enron guys - went after their family members to get them to cooperate.
(One of the Mueller team attorneys was big in the Enron case)

Or it could be someone whose name has not even really been in the news. Who knows what they found once they started digging into things like Manafort's shady real estate deals, or Flynn's undisclosed foreign contacts.
21 days ago - Saturday 10/28/17 - 5:23:05 PM EST (GMT-5)
The biggest reason I thought Manafort (or someone connected to him) is that this seems fast for an indictment, and the independent counsel investigation isn't starting from scratch when it comes to him. There was an ongoing investigation that they absorbed, which dated back at least a couple of years.
20 days ago - Sunday 10/29/17 - 8:24:35 AM EST (GMT-5)
So if Trump doesn't know who it is (yet) he can't pardon them (yet). Or does he have to wait for a conviction to pardon them?
20 days ago - Sunday 10/29/17 - 8:27:31 AM EST (GMT-5)
He didn't wait for sheriff Joe.

It would be funny if he pardoned someone and then they spilled the beans because the Don pissed them off in the past.
20 days ago - Sunday 10/29/17 - 1:58:57 PM EST (GMT-5)
manafort and flynn, most likely.

i doubt donald trump jr. or any other trump family members will face charges.
20 days ago - Sunday 10/29/17 - 2:05:15 PM EST (GMT-5)
On Sunday 10/29/17 - 8:27:31 AM snarf wrote:
He didn't wait for sheriff Joe. It would be funny if he pardoned someone and then they spilled the beans because the Don pissed them off in the past.

Joe had been convicted when he was pardoned. He hadn't been sentenced yet, I think. But he was guilty of criminal contempt.

But Ford pardoned Nixon before he had ever even been charged with a crime. He said he did it because he thought it would be bad for the country to go through an indictment and trial. But it pretty much sunk his chances at election.
20 days ago - Sunday 10/29/17 - 2:06:07 PM EST (GMT-5)
On Sunday 10/29/17 - 1:58:57 PM Inquizitor2 wrote:
i doubt donald trump jr. or any other trump family members will face charges.

Yet.
20 days ago - Sunday 10/29/17 - 2:53:47 PM EST (GMT-5)
On Sunday 10/29/17 - 2:05:15 PM birdsong4j wrote:
But Ford pardoned Nixon before he had ever even been charged with a crime. He said he did it because he thought it would be bad for the country to go through an indictment and trial. But it pretty much sunk his chances at election.


But he had been charged, right? In other words, he pardoned him of a specific crime rather than giving him blanket immunity for any and all crimes potentially committed.
20 days ago - Sunday 10/29/17 - 3:15:54 PM EST (GMT-5)
No, Nixon was never charged with a crime. The pardon was for any and all crimes he may have committed.

https://fordlibrarymuseum.gov/libra...
20 days ago - Sunday 10/29/17 - 3:26:52 PM EST (GMT-5)
On Sunday 10/29/17 - 1:58:57 PM Inquizitor2 wrote:
i doubt donald trump jr. or any other trump family members will face charges.
On Sunday 10/29/17 - 2:06:07 PM birdsong4j wrote:
Yet.


Yet? Has there been any indication that an actual crime has been committed?
20 days ago - Sunday 10/29/17 - 3:27:51 PM EST (GMT-5)
Well yes. An indictment (or indictments) is usually an indication that an actual crime has been committed.
20 days ago - Sunday 10/29/17 - 3:33:04 PM EST (GMT-5)
Yes, but aren't the expected indictments (Manafort) thought to be for a crime that is alleged to have happened a couple of years ago and are unrelated to the Trump administration?
20 days ago - Sunday 10/29/17 - 3:34:02 PM EST (GMT-5)
In other words, what crimes are thought to have been committed by Trump Jr.?
20 days ago - Sunday 10/29/17 - 3:39:50 PM EST (GMT-5)
On Sunday 10/29/17 - 3:33:04 PM CowDung wrote:
Yes, but aren't the expected indictments (Manafort) thought to be for a crime that is alleged to have happened a couple of years ago and are unrelated to the Trump administration?

This is entirely speculative, just like all the guesses in this thread (and everywhere).

As for Jr., well, I wouldn't think we've heard the last of that Trump Tower meeting.
20 days ago - Sunday 10/29/17 - 4:15:04 PM EST (GMT-5)
I see Trump is handling this with his usual style, charm and grace...
20 days ago - Sunday 10/29/17 - 4:17:36 PM EST (GMT-5)
On Sunday 10/29/17 - 3:34:02 PM CowDung wrote:
In other words, what crimes are thought to have been committed by Trump Jr.?


i heard him brought up a lot when they discussed his father and russia on the news, that he was meeting with russian officials.
20 days ago - Sunday 10/29/17 - 8:39:10 PM EST (GMT-5)
On Sunday 10/29/17 - 8:24:35 AM catchall wrote:
So if Trump doesn't know who it is (yet) he can't pardon them (yet). Or does he have to wait for a conviction to pardon them?


So Trump is actually in a tricky spot regarding pardoning people.

1st, if he pardons anyone in order to prevent them from striking a deal, that's potentially obstruction of justice. This might also trigger impeachment (assuming the GOP can be bothered to care about protecting the institution).

2nd, anyone who is pardoned loses their 5th A protection against self-incrimination, so those people could be compelled to cooperate w/the investigation/testify.


20 days ago - Sunday 10/29/17 - 8:58:53 PM EST (GMT-5)
The amount that we have to depend on the GOP bothering to care about is really terrifying. In every impeachment (or near-impeachment, Nixon) case in history, we've had the opposite party in power in at least the House. The president's own party has never been faced with the decision to impeach him.

I know there is a lot of talk about Trump issuing a bunch of pardons preemptively, or even pulling a Nixon and going through the DOJ firing people until he finds someone willing to fire Mueller. But I think his lawyers, at least, are smart enough to know what a terrible idea either one of those would be. It would not surprise me if they've had to talk him out of trying to get rid of Mueller at least once so far.
20 days ago - Sunday 10/29/17 - 9:00:41 PM EST (GMT-5)
Then again, he has family who could be implicated, so who the hell knows. And Roger Stone has his ear at least to an extent, and that guy is crazy enough to still maintain that Nixon did nothing wrong.
19 days ago - Sunday 10/29/17 - 10:51:47 PM EST (GMT-5)
On Sunday 10/29/17 - 8:39:10 PM Courtbebe wrote:
So Trump is actually in a tricky spot regarding pardoning people. 1st, if he pardons anyone in order to prevent them from striking a deal, that's potentially obstruction of justice. This might also trigger impeachment (assuming the GOP can be bothered to care about protecting the institution). 2nd, anyone who is pardoned loses their 5th A protection against self-incrimination, so those people could be compelled to cooperate w/the investigation/testify.


Aren't your #1 and #2 in disagreement? If the pardon results in them being compelled to testify instead of taking the 5th, it isn't obstructing justice at all. Isn't the striking of a deal in your #1 an agreement to testify (not take the 5th) in exchange for leniency or protection from prosecution?
19 days ago - Sunday 10/29/17 - 10:58:34 PM EST (GMT-5)
Trying to obstruct justice but failing to actually do so is still a crime. You don't have to succeed in order to be prosecuted for it.

And if someone were pardoned, but then called to testify, there would be no "deal" with prosecutors, but they would still be compelled to testify, rather than pleading the 5th (because there would be no ability for them to self-incriminate, having been already pardoned).

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