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Wednesday 11/4/09 - 12:35:22 PM
As reported by Ed Brayton:
"Sen. James Webb of Virginia is working to pass a bill that would establish a commission to look at our entire criminal justice system, top to bottom, and make recommendations for reform; Sen. Charles Grassley is trying to make sure that commission can't even consider the possibility of decriminalizing or legalizing any currently illegal substances.
"Grassley has proposed an amendment to that bill that would prohibit the commission from even considering any changes to the Controlled Substances Act: |
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Wednesday 11/4/09 - 12:36:45 PM
"The Commission shall have no authority to make findings related to current Federal, State, and local criminal justice policies and practices or reform recommendations that involve, support, or otherwise discuss the decriminalization of any offense under the Controlled Substances Act or the legalization of any controlled substance listed under the Controlled Substances Act."
So, basically: Sure! Look at the prison system, but I won't let you even look at and comment on drug laws. They have to stay the same.
Seriously, why? Why is drug law this sacred calf for these people? |
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Wednesday 11/4/09 - 12:41:02 PM
considering things is dangerous business. |
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Wednesday 11/4/09 - 12:41:33 PM
also, i'm sure their stake in it is money. |
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Wednesday 11/4/09 - 12:44:21 PM
Because Reagan did the drug law stuff... And if HE truly is the Republican Moses. For a certain class of Republicans doing anything that's going to contradict Reagan is like cursing the promise land. |
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Wednesday 11/4/09 - 12:47:25 PM
As another personal aside, I really have to respect Sen. Webb for pushing this issue in the first place. It's not the most popular approach, but we really do need to examine the criminal justice system with an evidence-based eye. The system doesn't exist for its own sake, it exists for the sake of outcomes, and it's becoming as inflated and gluttonous as health care simply because people don't want to appear "soft on crime". |
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Wednesday 11/4/09 - 12:55:32 PM
No, Mallet, you're correct. And there's been a lot of initiatives to do this in certain localities... But it's not gaining momentum because it's always being struck down as "soft on crime"... When, infact, what we're doing ISN'T working in a lot of contexts and the degree of "working" it is versus the money we spend just isn't worth it.
Hopefully now that the Democratic congress has pushed forward a Healthcare bill and that's on it's way to getting worked out, we'll start to see them doing a lot of reforms in other areas. We need a good overhaul, and most conservatives don't have the philisophical goahead to do that sort of thing. |
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Wednesday 11/4/09 - 12:58:24 PM
i agree, mallet. i've always been a bit baffled by the lack of recognition of the fact that our current ways of 'punishment' or incarceration, or whatever you want to call it, doesnt and hasnt worked.
most likely because of what you said, nobody wants to touch the issue, i think not only because they dont want to appear soft on crime, but because it would be an enormous task. |
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Wednesday 11/4/09 - 1:02:15 PM
If you want to overhaul the entire criminal justice system, I would think the first thing you would change are the drug laws.
I'd rather see a marijuana dealer loose on the streets than a rapist or mugger. |
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Wednesday 11/4/09 - 1:09:50 PM
On Wednesday 11/4/09 - 1:02:15 PM Noldor wrote:
I'd rather see a marijuana dealer loose on the streets than a rapist or mugger. |
Ain't that the truth! Even any type of drug dealer! Those rapists should never be released unless maybe if they are castrated. |
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Wednesday 11/4/09 - 1:11:39 PM
On Wednesday 11/4/09 - 1:02:15 PM Noldor wrote:
If you want to overhaul the entire criminal justice system, I would think the first thing you would change are the drug laws. I'd rather see a marijuana dealer loose on the streets than a rapist or mugger. |
Actually, I think our property crime laws would be the first to be overhauled. Excessive punative action for what is honestly, JUST STUFF, is stupid to incarcerate someone for. Give 'em a restitution sentence. If they're just stealing, and they didn't pull a gun or use force or threats of force... Paying more money to keep them in jail just doesn't make sense.
Then sentencing guidelines DON'T make sense. Establishing mandatory minimums for things is excessively expensive and doesn't do much good. |
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Wednesday 11/4/09 - 1:12:48 PM
On Wednesday 11/4/09 - 1:02:15 PM Noldor wrote:
I'd rather see a marijuana dealer loose on the streets than a rapist or mugger. |
On Wednesday 11/4/09 - 1:09:50 PM BluPineRidge wrote:
Ain't that the truth! Even any type of drug dealer! Those rapists should never be released unless maybe if they are castrated. |
I wouldn't even let a rapist loose then. That's one of those crimes where you should hit the cells for life. |
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Wednesday 11/4/09 - 1:14:18 PM
I dunno, property crime usually doesn't provoke institutional issues such as asset forfeiture (IMO, one of the biggest stains on drug law enforcement as it is currently written).
And then (absolute) prosecutorial immunity makes me feel ill when it's considered.
I mean, the criminal justice system is a lot larger than just prison sentencing. |
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Wednesday 11/4/09 - 1:20:04 PM
On Wednesday 11/4/09 - 1:02:15 PM Noldor wrote:
If you want to overhaul the entire criminal justice system, I would think the first thing you would change are the drug laws. I'd rather see a marijuana dealer loose on the streets than a rapist or mugger. |
Yep. Its kinda sad that there are mandatory mininum sentencing for some drug charges, but not for violent crimes like rape and murder.
Kinda screwy if you ask me. |
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Wednesday 11/4/09 - 1:23:31 PM
No, I'm with you. Drugs need to be up there. But I really feel that, when it comes down to it those are the most glaring holes to me.
Yeah, asset forfeiture is really f*cked up, and that needs to change. The prosecutorial immunity is also f*cked up... But those are really used in a small amount of drug cases.
They need to be changed, for sure.
But when it comes down to it, the things I mentioned would be more of a benefit to everyone than decriminalizing pot (which, too, I think should happen)... And certain things, like PCP are dangerous enough to where I think that there's nothing specific to be done with THAT drug, and that the rules surrounding due process and sentencing need to come first. |
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Wednesday 11/4/09 - 1:43:19 PM
whats the difference in numbers of those incarcerated for drug crimes vs. those incarcerate for property and the other such crimes you mentioned? |
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Wednesday 11/4/09 - 1:44:34 PM
When it comes to drugs, some people are just a closed book. It's just like "drugs = bad" the end.
Smoking cigars or drinking whiskey, eh, that's ok.
I'm not saying drugs are good for you, but I do think certain drugs, like mj, should be decriminalized.
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Wednesday 11/4/09 - 1:51:09 PM
dont forget prescription drugs. those are ok too.
ya know, i do the police reports for the newspaper and the most frequent arrests are for driving with a suspended/non valid or without a license. next up is battery. which doesnt surprise me for several reasons. one of which is the local pd just 'lost' a 20 gram bag of pot during an arrest.  |
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Wednesday 11/4/09 - 1:51:39 PM
i totally forgot what i was going for with that.  |
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thatguy3g
Male,
18-29
Eastern US
Joined: 1 month ago
1,885 Posts
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Wednesday 11/4/09 - 1:56:56 PM
On Wednesday 11/4/09 - 1:02:15 PM Noldor wrote:
I'd rather see a marijuana dealer loose on the streets than a rapist or mugger. |
On Wednesday 11/4/09 - 1:09:50 PM BluPineRidge wrote:
Ain't that the truth! Even any type of drug dealer! Those rapists should never be released unless maybe if they are castrated. |
On Wednesday 11/4/09 - 1:12:48 PM Kepi wrote:
I wouldn't even let a rapist loose then. That's one of those crimes where you should hit the cells for life. |
This is a completely unjustified opinion. |
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Wednesday 11/4/09 - 2:41:05 PM
On Wednesday 11/4/09 - 1:02:15 PM Noldor wrote:
I'd rather see a marijuana dealer loose on the streets than a rapist or mugger. |
On Wednesday 11/4/09 - 1:09:50 PM BluPineRidge wrote:
Ain't that the truth! Even any type of drug dealer! Those rapists should never be released unless maybe if they are castrated. |
On Wednesday 11/4/09 - 1:12:48 PM Kepi wrote:
I wouldn't even let a rapist loose then. That's one of those crimes where you should hit the cells for life. |
On Wednesday 11/4/09 - 1:56:56 PM thatguy3g wrote:
This is a completely unjustified opinion. |
this is an unfinished opinion. |
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thatguy3g
Male,
18-29
Eastern US
Joined: 1 month ago
1,885 Posts
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Wednesday 11/4/09 - 2:52:30 PM
Actually, the one's above it are unfinished, which is exactly what I stated.
Somehow we can think of a million ways to justify murder but not one to justify rape. Is lust so much less powerful than aggression? |
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thatguy3g
Male,
18-29
Eastern US
Joined: 1 month ago
1,885 Posts
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Wednesday 11/4/09 - 3:02:10 PM
*ones |
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thatguy3g
Male,
18-29
Eastern US
Joined: 1 month ago
1,885 Posts
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Wednesday 11/4/09 - 3:22:44 PM
On the topic of this thread; there can be a lot of reform to our prison system without reforming drug laws. Drug offenders in prison just happens to be a popular topic because people want to get high. The mentally handicapped in prison don't pertain to people's ability to get high, so don't get as much attention. |
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Wednesday 11/4/09 - 4:05:27 PM
On Wednesday 11/4/09 - 3:22:44 PM thatguy3g wrote:
On the topic of this thread; there can be a lot of reform to our prison system without reforming drug laws. Drug offenders in prison just happens to be a popular topic because people want to get high. The mentally handicapped in prison don't pertain to people's ability to get high, so don't get as much attention. |
I don't do any drugs
One of my main concern is recidivism indirectly, felons who do the crime again
Rapists
Murders
Drunk drivers who kill
Mentally prisoners should be in mental institutions
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